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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc. |
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13th Jan 2021, 9:19 pm | #41 |
Octode
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Re: Cassette tape types
Re tape types, type 2 had not just better fidelity generally, they were less prone to demagnetization so retained their fidelity better after repeated playings. Type I tapes became increasingly hissy and muffled. If I had my time again I would have paid the extra and recorded to Type 2.
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13th Jan 2021, 9:34 pm | #42 |
Dekatron
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Re: Cassette tape types
That's an elephant trap if ever I saw one, but the 215 and derivatives are hard to beat all around the course. True, they use Sony heads, which were surpassed by some in the maximum level they could put onto metal tape, and true also that I would prefer to see a pad lifter - but that is a Nakamichi patent feature. Dual capstans make these machines impervious to most cassette problems and impart a stabilty to the sound seldom found in single capstan designs.
This is no reflection on the dual capstan Nakamichi designs - I own two, one in need of attention to the transport - how I love that mode selection mechanism! - but for my money the Revox has the edge. |
13th Jan 2021, 10:26 pm | #43 |
Octode
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Re: Cassette tape types
I read that some audiophile duplicating companies used the expensive 215's for making their real time cassette copies, partly due to the decks' long term reliability, but I'd wager that over time they had to replace and align a lot of worn record/play heads!
A feature not always appreciated about the Nakamichi head lifter design is that it gets the maximum life of the record and play heads. Pressure pads usually make a real mess of the head's face. On the other hand, Nak decks could be fussy and difficult to repair and some models used cheap plastic parts which could fail. My ideal cassette deck might be a 215 - or a number of other good dual capstan cassette decks - but redesigned with a Nakamichi type pressure pad lifter. Maybe as Ted says what prevented other companies from incorporating a pad lifter on their high end decks was Nakamichi's patent. Last edited by TIMTAPE; 13th Jan 2021 at 10:36 pm. |
14th Jan 2021, 12:14 pm | #44 | |
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Re: Cassette tape types
Quote:
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14th Jan 2021, 2:40 pm | #45 |
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Re: Cassette tape types
None at all, I fear, but I've looked it up and it certainly seems to be an impressive beast - I tend to favour Revox/Studer over Japanese machines in general because of the bomb-proof engineering, but YMMV. A properly engineered dual capstan layout is essential at this level, and this the Pioneer has, it seems.
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14th Jan 2021, 2:50 pm | #46 |
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Re: Cassette tape types
I agree with Ted. As a fellow B215 owner, it's one of those machines that just goes on and on. Metal chassis, direct drive. Nothing comes close for build quality or reliability, not even a Nak.
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14th Jan 2021, 3:09 pm | #47 |
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Re: Cassette tape types
I once had a colleague try to tell me that cassettes were now better than open reel tape. They had, he said, Dolby, 3 heads, dual capstans and exotic tape formulations.
I asked him if there was anything preventing those things being applied to open reel tape machines. David
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14th Jan 2021, 3:45 pm | #48 |
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Re: Cassette tape types
Nice one David. Not to mention the thousands more magnetic particles per piece of information. I once compared a test CD signal with the same recorded on my A77 and my then cassette deck, not sure what it was. It was virtually impossible to distinguish between the CD and the Revox, but the cassette deck had 'whistley' anomalies going on. That's when testing a single, pure signal. On programme material the difference between cassette deck and Revox was much less noticeable. And that's why for all but the most critical listening (have no real reason to do that any more) for example walking around the house listening to a cassette recording, it is totally acceptable for me, especially now I have the Pioneer CT-93.
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14th Jan 2021, 5:40 pm | #49 |
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Re: Cassette tape types
I've just received a cassette copy of Prefab Sprout's From Langley Park to Memphis.
I was interested to see the label state "CHROME EQ 120μ Sec". I'm yet to play it, but I like the attention to technical detail. Another of their albums I own on cassette, Andromeda Heights, sounds excellent too. I wonder if there was some stipulation in their contract as to the quality of their physical output?
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14th Jan 2021, 7:13 pm | #50 |
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Re: Cassette tape types
So that would be a Type II tape recorded with Type I equalisation. I assume it doesn't have the extra cut-out next to the anti-record notch or an auto-select deck will play back with the wrong eq.
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14th Jan 2021, 8:08 pm | #51 |
Octode
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Re: Cassette tape types
No cut outs...
I did try playing as Normal or Chrome and, to my ears, Normal sounded better. The subject is discussed here https://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=4941 Not that I read that first.
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14th Jan 2021, 8:48 pm | #52 | |
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Re: Cassette tape types
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14th Jan 2021, 9:35 pm | #53 | |
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Re: Cassette tape types
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One thing they often did in the 80s was record on chrome, yet suggest playback on normal EQ to add a little more top end. Makes sense, as what with differing head alignment and dirty transports out there, the top end was always the first to suffer. Of course, the production helped. Thomas Dolby's (no relation!) work on those albums was amazing. Jordan the comeback is another that absolutely shines.
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14th Jan 2021, 9:52 pm | #54 |
Octode
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Re: Cassette tape types
I've always preferred a bit more treble so I guess that's why I liked it set to Normal.
Jordan the Comeback is the album I meant in an earlier post (not Andromeda Heights). Thst sounds great even on my setup.
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15th Jan 2021, 12:23 am | #55 |
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Re: Cassette tape types
These cassettes were actually recorded with a 120uS curve, partly to reduce HF crushing at high recording levels. You were hearing the intended treble level on the Type 1 setting.
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15th Jan 2021, 12:45 am | #56 |
Octode
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Re: Cassette tape types
That's one of the reasons why some decks have separate bias and eq switches for the different tape types. You can record on type II tapes with the correct bias but benefit from the better high frequency headroom that 120uS gives you, albeit at the expense of slightly more noise.
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15th Jan 2021, 2:04 am | #57 | |
Octode
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Re: Cassette tape types
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The low noise/high output tapes improvements arguably helped the cassette more than open reel where with wider tracks and faster speeds, noise and distortion wasnt so much of a problem. The Achilles heel of hi fi cassette recording was poorer signal to noise and it was never really solved without Dolby or other NR. But Dolby could be fiddly to get right to avoid artifacts, so many people avoided it. I think the automatic alignment feature of the later more exotic cassette decks helped make good quality cassette recording accessible for the less technical user. Speaking of cassette tape types I think the Metal tape really came into its own in the 80's with Sony's 8mm cassette tape camcorders and the later digital ones such as DV and Digital 8. What once could only be recorded on large reels of 2" or 1" wide tape could now be captured on tiny tapes in eventually tiny cameras. Then there was DAT. I dont recall if this used a Metal or a Chrome type tape. A downside of Metal type tapes is that they can be easily destroyed by water contamination, whereas conventional tapes such as ferric and chrome have more of a chance of surviving - if treated promptly with the necessary skills. But there was still another price to pay for the miniaturisation and squeezing of data onto tiny real estate. Alignment was critical and the same dirt, mould and physical damage which might only cause minor dropout on a large tape could mean huge loss of picture and sound with a tiny carrier. Last edited by TIMTAPE; 15th Jan 2021 at 2:18 am. |
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15th Jan 2021, 8:40 am | #58 |
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Re: Cassette tape types
Looking at the age profile of members, most of us will be struggling to hear above 10khz. I tested myself a few weeks ago, 10k ok, 12k nothing.
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22nd Jan 2021, 1:35 am | #59 |
Octode
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Re: Cassette tape types
The very last cassette decks made in the late 90s had Dolby S - taking the humble format's SNR up from around 60dB (on a healthy deck / tape) to 80dB. S was the consumer version of SR, which rivalled 16-bit digital in dynamic range (from memory, I think SR on a 1/2" reel machine could manage 90dB SNR).
Considering SR encoder / decoder modules are relatively affordable these days, what would stop you from using one on a decent cassette deck? I'm looking at upgrading my current deck for the purpose of recording vinyl. As with the classic cassette decks (look at prices on auction sites...), vinyl prices have gone mad. Records I bought for a fiver are now north of 50 or even 100 quid. I was thinking that a high quality cassette would be a fun way of being able to listen to them after a few G+Ts, without the worry of damaging the vinyl (there is also the cost of decent styli). Of course, I could use a decent ADC, but where would the fun be in that? No satisfying clunk from the solenoid. I've even nabbed a NOS Canon amorphous head for said deck. I've got my head, just need to find a deck NB - the 215 is the best deck I've heard. I got one out of a duping house. It didn't record well, but it played like new. Last edited by knobtwiddler; 22nd Jan 2021 at 1:40 am. |
22nd Jan 2021, 3:38 am | #60 | |
Octode
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Re: Cassette tape types
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