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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

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Old 26th Jan 2021, 5:48 am   #1
nlmcc22
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Default Philips 3541D. Value and source of belts?

My father recently passed away with a heap of old trinkets in the basement (among other hobbies). I found this battered fella in the corner and I have some questions.

First of all, while the motor runs beautifully, I have discovered the particular issue of the belts melting into useless black goo.
It’s my hope/belief that a replacement of those belts might be enough to get the wheels literally turning again. I live in Canada, I know eBay is an option but I was hoping someone might point me in the direction of a reputable seller/definitively correct product before I go spending time and money.

Secondly, on the topic of time and money, while I am curious and slightly determined to get this working, what would the market value honestly be in selling one. There was a sticker for 220$ on it, I assume from an antique shop, but I’m not entirely convinced that is the value, working or not.

Help a flustered gal out?
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Old 26th Jan 2021, 12:48 pm   #2
Edward Huggins
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Default Re: Philips 3541D

I can't source any details of this. Do you have the model number correct? Assume it is a reel-to-reel tape recorder.
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Old 26th Jan 2021, 1:06 pm   #3
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Default Re: Philips 3541D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Huggins View Post
I can't source any details of this. Do you have the model number correct? Assume it is a reel-to-reel tape recorder.
https://www.service-data.com/section.php/6073/1/el3541

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philip...541d2rk_1.html

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=72812

https://vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22527
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Old 26th Jan 2021, 1:26 pm   #4
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Default Re: Philips 3541D. Value and source of belts?

I don't wish to be the bearer of bad news, but the EL3541 is just about the most common Philips reel-to-reel recorder in the UK. It's a fairly basic domestic machine, 1 motor, 2 heads, 4 track mono, single speed (3.75 inches/second). I have both the Philips and Stella versions in my collection and I don't think I paid more than £10 for either of them (that's in the 'as found' condition without replacement belts, etc).
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Old 26th Jan 2021, 3:30 pm   #5
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Default Re: Philips 3541D. Value and source of belts?

As Tony implies, CDN$220 would be an awful lot to pay for one of these, even after a full restoration. There isn't much demand for basic recorders, so it's a buyer's market.

You can buy generic belts in a range of sizes from electronic parts suppliers, some of which sell through Amazon or Ebay. It's easy enough to measure the size required. You may be able to find a belt kit for this specific model, though that would cost significantly more.

After you have sorted out the mechanical side, there is likely to be some electronic work required.
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Old 26th Jan 2021, 6:01 pm   #6
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Default Re: Philips 3541D. Value and source of belts?

First of all welcome to the Forum.

I would recommend that before you spend money on drive belts, you first have a quick visual inspection at the rest of the recorder to see if there is maybe other obvious parts that will require replacing, to determine if it is financially viable to try and get it working.

Particularly any rubber/rubber covered drive/idler wheels in case they have any bad rubber degradation, much less likely than belts but can happen. Also check for any broken plastic actuators/gear wheels etc. All these type of parts are generally much more difficult to source and extra expensive.

Also have a look at the Pinch Roller/Wheel, this is normally rubber and they are expensive to replace. The Pinch Roller is the roller that pushes the tape up against the rotating capstan shaft (when Play/Start pressed) and in turn drives the tape forward.

Market value estimation is always difficult and depends upon a number of factors, such as condition, operational status, rarity and sought after interest etc. As has already been stated, this is a fairly basic common recorder, so will not have high value and as Paul states CAD $220 would be a high figure for it.

You can sometimes get some ballpark idea by looking at asking prices for ones on eBay and other sites. I do not know how to do it, but believe on eBay you can list the previous sale prices for the model of interest.

Looking at the documentation, this model uses 2 drive belts, one for the main drive and the other for the tape counter drive, so initially you would only need the main belt to try and test it. Lots of online sellers will sell the correct kit of 2 belts (I find generally no problems buying these) but as stated above it can be more expensive doing it this way.

Also note that some belt sellers will sell the kit of 2 belts including other parts such as Pinch Roller, high quality lubricating oil etc, these of course will be more expensive.

Like Tony I also have this model and the Stella version but have not yet had time to check them out, so am not very familiar with the 3541.

Good luck with it.

David
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Old 26th Jan 2021, 7:48 pm   #7
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Default Re: Philips 3541D. Value and source of belts?

This must be the first time I've heard of the belts in an EL3541 turning to goo, generally, this type seems to predate the 'goo era'. Perhaps the belt has been replaced during the lifetime of the machine. Or it is from a very late production run. Otherwise they tend to still be serviceable, although possibly the belt is stretched to the point where the machine is struggling with one of the winding directions.

Regarding spare belts, an ebay search for 'EL3541 belts' will result in quite a few hits, though it seems most of them in Germany. They're not cheap, but will likely be of the correct length and cross section. Finding a cheaper replacement might be hard, since the the belts have a square cross section which was generally uncommon (except in Philips machines). A (round cross section) o-ring might fit, if one can find one that is long enough, from a hydraulic seals supplier. I've never tried one in a Philips machine though.

Since the belt has perished, it's probably worth while checking the state of the pinch roller too so it hasn't turned to goo as well.

Other than that, the achilles heel of these machines tend to be the rubber friction studs that are mounted on the pulleys underneath the reel holders which don't turn to go but tend to disintegrate over time, causing the machine to make scraping sounds in the fast wind modes. They can be replaced with suitable pieces cut from homogenous cork.

The electronics tend to hold up rather well, I think the caps are generally the Philips 'mustard' types which tend to last well. But of course it's impossible to say how this individual machine has fared, as there's a lot of things that potentially could happen over the years.

Last edited by ricard; 26th Jan 2021 at 7:54 pm.
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Old 27th Jan 2021, 3:41 pm   #8
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Default Re: Philips 3541D. Value and source of belts?

May be worth posting a couple of photos showing the electronic components around the valves to help the Forum identity them. If mustard type as ricard indicates (off yellow but less commonly could be green or brown coloured) then most likely OK but if other type (s) then potentially some could be problematical.

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Old 27th Jan 2021, 6:31 pm   #9
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Default Re: Philips 3541D. Value and source of belts?

Just to add to Ricard's post I too am surprised to know the belts have disintegrated. Regarding the rubber studs, I have found that a cheap and easy repair can be done using pencil erasers - the ones that fit to the top end of a pencil These can be sliced and fit perfectly.
There's a YouTube video of someone demolishing one of these for the valves and so he could use the case for some sort of project - heaven help us.
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Old 28th Jan 2021, 1:16 pm   #10
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Default Re: Philips 3541D. Value and source of belts?

Depending upon how bad the drive belt turning to a gooey mess is, cleaning it up can be a difficult and tedious process.

Would recommend using cotton buds moistened in IPA (Isopropyl alcohol / Isopropanol), Methylated Spirits or similar spirit/alcohol based cleaning products. These can be pungent, so work in well ventilated area/room. Also wear protective gloves such as disposable Vinyl gloves to protect skin from drying effects of the cleaning product and also to keep the belt goo off skin as it can be difficult to clean off. Note that some extra strong cleaning products may attack Vinyl and similar gloves.

Do a small bit at a time and avoid getting the belt goo and cleaning product elsewhere such as plastic components, other good condition rubber components and anyway in the tape path etc.

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Old 28th Jan 2021, 2:00 pm   #11
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Default Re: Philips 3541D. Value and source of belts?

https://vintage-radio.net/forum/show...9&postcount=25
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Old 28th Jan 2021, 2:06 pm   #12
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Default Re: Philips 3541D. Value and source of belts?

You can get lengths of polyurethane drive belt that you cut to length and join by melting the ends on a heated knife blade (I use the barrel of my old soldering iron) and simply immediately pushing together, trimming off the excess with a sharp knife. I have only found it in round section and with 2mm as the smallest size. As well as electronics suppliers it is available from places that sell things for model engineering.

The goo is certainly messy stuff. I mix with some of the dry powdered earth from my garden, working it into a stiff paste that is easier to remove and far less sticky. Our soil is a brick earth that reduces to an impalpable powder when dry. Bentonite, fuller's earth or any other fine absorbent powder could be used.

Last edited by emeritus; 28th Jan 2021 at 2:11 pm. Reason: Typos
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Old 30th Jan 2021, 7:45 am   #13
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Default Re: Philips 3541D. Value and source of belts?

There are a couple of threads here on this forum suggesting various solvents for effectively removing the goo, for instance this one:

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=123758
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Old 30th Jan 2021, 11:18 am   #14
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Default Re: Philips 3541D. Value and source of belts?

The OP hasn't returned since starting this thread, so you could all be wasting your time.
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