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Old 26th Jan 2021, 12:18 am   #1
Jimboey
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Default Pye P43 overheating.

Just acquired a Pye P43 in wooden cabinet, looking inside it looks a bit black. Can't decide whether it is soot or has something burned out or been on fire.

Any ideas please?
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Old 26th Jan 2021, 11:21 am   #2
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Default Re: Pye P43 overheating.

The first thing I would do is to renew all waxies and electrolytic capacitors, use a suitable cleaner such as Isopropyl Alcohol so that you can see what is what, but under no circumstances power the set up until all of this work has been done. You may even find that the resistors have gone high in their stated values especially where they are in HT feeds.

Hope this helps

Ken
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Old 26th Jan 2021, 11:37 am   #3
jonnybear
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Default Re: Pye P43 overheating.

I would not even think about trying that radio until I had completely cleaned rewired and replaced all carbonised components, this radio looks like it has been on fire, possibly due to being sprayed with an accelerant such as WD40 or similar.

John
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Old 26th Jan 2021, 12:09 pm   #4
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Default Re: Pye P43 overheating.

Before doing anything check all wound components for continuity. If any have gone open circuit it could render the set Beyond Economic Repair (BER).
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Old 26th Jan 2021, 12:12 pm   #5
Jimboey
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Default Re: Pye P43 overheating.

Thank you for reply, but I am a beginner at this. What are all wound components
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Old 26th Jan 2021, 12:21 pm   #6
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Default Re: Pye P43 overheating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboey View Post
Thank you for reply, but I am a beginner at this.
I suggest you take a look at the repair and restoration advice here:-

https://www.vintage-radio.com/repair...ion/index.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboey View Post
What are all wound components
Wound components are the mains transformer, output transformer and Intermediate Frequency Transformers (IFT's)

Service info for this set can be downloaded here:-

https://www.service-data.com/product...97/6643/m15197
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Old 26th Jan 2021, 12:49 pm   #7
NottsIan
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Default Re: Pye P43 overheating.

What does your nose tell you? Does it smell of soot? or tobacco smoke? or burnt electrical stuff? Are there any piles of wax in the bottom of the cabinet? The photos are not really clear enough to tell what's happened.
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Old 26th Jan 2021, 12:51 pm   #8
Mr 1936
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Default Re: Pye P43 overheating.

Hi

Another possibility.

I have seen TV set chassis that looked like that because they came from the home of a chain smoker !

The heat convection pulls the room smoke in over the years
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Old 26th Jan 2021, 6:58 pm   #9
mark pirate
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Default Re: Pye P43 overheating.

I have seen worse sets than this, I reckon it came from a smoker's house, more than likely had a coal fire as well!

Do not try cleaning it, you will no doubt cause more harm that good.


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Old 27th Jan 2021, 4:16 pm   #10
Al (astral highway)
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Default Re: Pye P43 overheating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboey View Post
Can't decide whether it is soot or has something burned out or been on fire.
For comparison, please can you post pix from a similar distance showing the top of the chassis? Also any chance you can post clearer or higher-res pix from your phone? It only takes a few seconds and could really help diagnostically.

My immediate instinct is that it's been on fire, but as people say, not possible to be sure.

If it has been on fire, I think it definitely is worth having a clean to see what is what. Valve bases could easily be damaged and other components may also be BER. It only takes seconds to cause catastrophic damage.

Also, can you let us know how much experience you have? If this is a first or one of your first sets, it may not be an ideal candidate for restoration if it does indeed have fire damage, unless you're looking for that extra level of challenge.


I would poke around some of the worst areas with a cotton bud and some IPA to start with, to see what's what.
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Old 30th Jan 2021, 12:38 am   #11
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Default Re: Pye P43 overheating.

Looks like fag stains and coal soot, my set was covered in inches of it in places, I had to very carefully use WD40 sprayed onto a Chinese tub lid then onto an old toothbrush and wipe straight away after. Not recommended for under chassis though, it doesn’t make a whole lot of difference as it cannot be seen, I’d personally take a brass brush to it to get the worse off. Change all wax caps etc.

As mentioned before, check all wound components - it doesn’t look like an overloading issue but it could be - always check.
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Old 30th Jan 2021, 2:02 am   #12
Jimboey
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Default Re: Pye P43 overheating.

Thanks for replies, looking at it closer I can't actually see any melting of wires. I have two of these sets and the woodwork on this one looks much darker than the other.I live in the West of Ireland where a lot of peat aka turf is burned on fires. This set could well of stood on a mantle piece for many years drawing in smoke. What do you think. I am a true novice, but I managed to build a lamp limiter with the instructions from this site, I have tried two other radios using my lamp limiter. Could I connect this set via the lamp limiter and get away with it ?
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Old 30th Jan 2021, 9:18 am   #13
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Default Re: Pye P43 overheating.

Looking closely at the pics, the black staining appears to be primarily in the centre of the chassis, this would suggest possibly high heat build-up from the valve bases, I have seen this before.
A pic of the chassis top would help further with this investigation.
I would agree with others regarding coil devices, I always check trannys first, then valve checks.
Any tranny needing a rewind can be sent to Ed Dinning, whilst he sorts it out, it buys time to replace knackered components.
Hope the above helps the OP to get things up and running.
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Old 30th Jan 2021, 3:38 pm   #14
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Default Re: Pye P43 overheating.

Hi.
Looks like soot from a coal fire to me, very common in the old days.
Now I know I'll get criticism for this suggestion but I do this in many jobs and restores and if done properly will work perfectly.
Firstly remove the chassis, if the tuning dial is part of the chassis remove it and store it safely, same with the speaker if its chassis mounted remove it. Remove all the valves.
If you have access to a pressure washer that makes the job quicker. Obtain some TFR, (traffic film remover) half fill an old kitchen spray bottle with it and fill the other half with hot water. Give everything a good spray with the solution on the top and underside of the chassis. You may want to work this in with a paint brush. Leave for two minutes. Then rinse off with the pressure washer, don't get too close with the nozzle though or repeated rinsing. 30 seconds is all you need. This should remove all the muck and should look like new. The next stage is very important. Use a fan heater on low or a hair dryer on low and spend at least half an hour going over the whole chassis, dont concentrate on one part at a time but keep moving the heat about. Once all the visible water is gone. Put the chassis in front of a fan heater but about a couple of feet away, this will give a less concentrated heat, aim that the chassis gets warm without getting too hot. A couple of hours should be long enough. Thereafter a day or so in an airing cupboard or warm dry place.
I know to many this sounds madness but many do this, it will dry out perfectly if you use common sense and will make the restore process much easier. You'll need to replace most of the wax caps, the rectangular types that are smaller values are usually fine with no issues. Caps with values of 1000pf, 500of 0.01, 0.05, 0.1, 0.2uf etc are the ones to replace. Main electrolytic capacitors can often be reformed and will work OK.
Hope this will help.
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Old 30th Jan 2021, 4:06 pm   #15
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Default Re: Pye P43 overheating.

A couple of pictures of a recent clean up job with the method I've discussed.
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Old 31st Jan 2021, 6:44 pm   #16
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Default Re: Pye P43 overheating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnybear View Post
I would not even think about trying that radio until I had completely cleaned rewired and replaced all carbonised components, this radio looks like it has been on fire, possibly due to being sprayed with an accelerant such as WD40 or similar.

John
Either that or it has been used in a room that had a coal fire. I've seen two or three sets that were filthy inside from this cause. It also tends to cause nasty arcing if not complete shorts.
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Old 31st Jan 2021, 8:55 pm   #17
Jimboey
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Default Re: Pye P43 overheating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al (astral highway) View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboey View Post
Can't decide whether it is soot or has something burned out or been on fire.
For comparison, please can you post pix from a similar distance showing the top of the chassis? Also any chance you can post clearer or higher-res pix from your phone? It only takes a few seconds and could really help diagnostically.

My immediate instinct is that it's been on fire, but as people say, not possible to be sure.

If it has been on fire, I think it definitely is worth having a clean to see what is what. Valve bases could easily be damaged and other components may also be BER. It only takes seconds to cause catastrophic damage.

Also, can you let us know how much experience you have? If this is a first or one of your first sets, it may not be an ideal candidate for restoration if it does indeed have fire damage, unless you're looking for that extra level of challenge.


I would poke around some of the worst areas with a cotton bud and some IPA to start with, to see what's what.
Trying to upload more pics
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Old 31st Jan 2021, 9:20 pm   #18
Jimboey
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Default Re: Pye P43 overheating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboey View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al (astral highway) View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboey View Post
Can't decide whether it is soot or has something burned out or been on fire.
For comparison, please can you post pix from a similar distance showing the top of the chassis? Also any chance you can post clearer or higher-res pix from your phone? It only takes a few seconds and could really help diagnostically.

My immediate instinct is that it's been on fire, but as people say, not possible to be sure.

If it has been on fire, I think it definitely is worth having a clean to see what is what. Valve bases could easily be damaged and other components may also be BER. It only takes seconds to cause catastrophic damage.

Also, can you let us know how much experience you have? If this is a first or one of your first sets, it may not be an ideal candidate for restoration if it does indeed have fire damage, unless you're looking for that extra level of challenge.


I would poke around some of the worst areas with a cotton bud and some IPA to start with, to see what's what.
Trying to upload more pics
a bit clearer pics
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Old 31st Jan 2021, 9:46 pm   #19
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Default Re: Pye P43 overheating.

Reminds me of Nick O'Tine.

Lawrence.
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Old 31st Jan 2021, 9:48 pm   #20
Jimboey
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Default Re: Pye P43 overheating.

Just removed all the valves all bases of valve holders looks clean except for valve 2 ebf80 which is black and sooty looking
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