Identifying radiogram. Value?

[sparkymike]

The quality of the cabinet suggests to me that it was a professional job and definitely not home made unless it was done by a cabinet maker who had all the specialized tools at his disposal. I would go along with those who think it could have been used on a cruise liner. The cabinet alone would have cost a pretty penny when built in the 30's or 40's ? Normal household radiograms were much less ornate as the one in question in those times, especially just after the war when materials were scarce. Most were quite ugly in my mind, with just one or two standing out from the rest.
This one is something else with a very nice veneer and should be preserved.
As a matter of interest,did they ever have one in Pullman trains in the bars ?
Perhaps a very upmarket Mayfair club ?
Mike.

[Techman]

More and more I'm starting to think along the lines that Mike was thinking in terms of it perhaps it being made by Balcombe/Alba, perhaps as a special, that's if they did that sort of thing. It's quite likely that Balcombe didn't make their cabinets 'in-house', so perhaps the unit in question was made by the same cabinet making company as made cabinets for them - and probably other manufacturers. I've borrowed a couple more images of the gram mentioned by Mike, these showing the rear of the unit. The gram part has no bottom board and is open to the floor - the OPs cabinet has an obviously later made bottom board added as I noted in a previous post, so would have originally been the same.

The lid structure and design is very similar between the two grams, with a very shallow rear part compared with the front, the difference being that the hinge is exposed on the one for sale, but obviously it's concealed on the OPs gram because it would have been on full view, due to this being the front (or should I say "the other front", because this gram has two front sides).

Many grams have a light to illuminate the record deck, but these are always low down and are just for lighting up the deck controls. This gram in question has the light high up in the front of the lid, so that a DJ can actually look at his/her notes and read the record labels etc. The gram lids would all be made the same and it would not have been easy at manufacture to run a light cable within the lid structure, so they had to run it externally and provide it with a two pin plug and socket on the gram deck board. It'll be low voltage AC from the valve heater supply and you can see evidence of the elongated cut out where the socket would have been fitted on the deck board. I think this light is an original feature and would probably have originally had some sort of shade/cover that's since gone missing, although it might have just been exposed as it is now.

I did think that there may have been a microphone input and that it was where there's evidence of a plate having been removed with a hole in the middle, but this hole is far too small for a mic jack socket. This is where I originally thought that there may have been a line standard switch fitted, thinking it may have been a TV cabinet, but I now actually think that it could be for an FM tuner control. I've seen this done before on AM only radiograms, where the manufacturer had the dealers recall the grams if the customer wanted FM fitting when it first became available. Depending on what was in the way high up in the gram, the tuner was sometimes fitted low down in the cabinet and had a long extension shaft, sometimes with a coupling half way up it, to come out at the top with a four position switch with just the three FM stations pre-set and marked on the top plate surround. These tuners were valved and had a separate power supply and had a Yaxley type switch with one position to switch off AM gram, with the other three for Home, Light and Third - I've got a picture of one somewhere if I can find it.

A couple more 'borrowed' pictures of the Balcombe/Alba gram below, showing the back view and how the corners are NOT rounded off on this one, as it's meant to be positioned against a wall:-

[dave walsh]

I've been in touch with the OP Will about the Kingdom of Wessex [OT for here of course]. He tells me he will be going back to where his mystery Radiogram is located soon and look for more clues. I'd said that things often go quiet and then more info suddenly turns up unexpectedly. It's happened before. It then occurred to me that, if the stand alone console with external speakers in a shipboard Ballroom theory has legs [the theory that is] there may be Ship enthusiasts who could confirm. There would be numerous photos of social events on Liners etc! I thought this was my own clever notion but I realise it probably comes from me watching the wonderful Steven Poliakoff drama about a Photo Library "Shooting The Past" [again] over the weekend. Are there any nautical history enthusiasts associated with the Forum for example? Many individuals have multiple interests!

Dave W

[Neutrino]

I doubt that it was installed on a ship. The photograph of door to the ‘storage’ section in post #6 does not appear show a catch that would be needed to prevent the door from swinging open, releasing the contents and breaking its hinges in heavy weather.

There are some photographs of the RMS Queen Mary here for reference:
https://www.sterling.rmplc.co.uk/visions/riches.html

David

[dave walsh]

Thanks for the input David. Even if you are doubtful about the ship theory you have proved that there is no end to the knowledge available on the Forum and I have studied the Ballroom Plans in particular, with great interest!

Dave

[WessexWill]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

I doubt that it was installed on a ship. The photograph of door to the ‘storage’ section in post #6 does not appear show a catch that would be needed to prevent the door from swinging open, releasing the contents and breaking its hinges in heavy weather.

There are some photographs of the RMS Queen Mary here for reference:
https://www.sterling.rmplc.co.uk/visions/riches.html

David

Hi David,

There is a small bearing fastener.

Will

[WessexWill]

Thanks all. I had a false start last weekend which prevented me from getting over to the house where the radiogram is. But that’s fixed and I’m here this weekend.

To be honest the thead is too long to go through and try and answer each point but I think I remember most.

Please see more detailed photos of the insert that may have housed controls/turntable.

There is an opening between main unit and side unit. There is also a hole between the two shelves of the side unit. Speakers?

All the ‘knobs’ are screwed in. The knob closest to the side unit has an interesting discolouration around it at the back, about 1.5”x4” with screws holes at the top of each end. I can’t see anything similar on the others.

The only logo I can see of any description is under the light. But guessing this would just be a component manufacturer not necessarily the company assembling/designing the radiogram.

There is nothing of note underneath. The back could be removed but I’m sceptical it would shed any light (other than daylight) and believe you wouldn’t see any more for doing so.

I’m around hopefully until Sunday evening so if anyone has specifics they would like me to photo, please advise.

Will

[WessexWill]

Further images

[WessexWill]

Last one/s.

Actually the very base of it does unscrew and when you look down into the main section the floor of that part (with the holes) is not the base. So that could be a further avenue to investigate.

[WessexWill]

The base is reluctant to come off. I think there may be some adhesive in addition to screws. But I’ve managed to prise it as much as it’s willing to and I’ve found a hopeful clue - stuck to the underside of floor of the radiogram. I also wonder if the current base is not original: there appear to be/at one point were attachments for feet (2 remain, 2 missing).

Will

[WessexWill]

A quick Google of Lawrence and Hall Ltd Harrogate suggests this was/still is a storage facility

[Nickthedentist]

https://www.blunham.com/Radar/Signal...ers/Vol181.pdf

The owner maybe?

Apparently he was evacuated with the PO Engineers to Harrogate during the war.

[WessexWill]

Thanks Nick. Another Google link provides a biography at Page 64:

http://www.samhallas.co.uk/repositor...uly%201966.pdf

[Nickthedentist]

Amazing! An OBE too, and a photo.

[WessexWill]

Originally Posted by Nickthedentist

Amazing! An OBE too, and a photo.

From the Gazette for 1966 Birthday Honours his full name is Harold Earnest Francis.

And a 15 min trawl of Probate records I can only find one individual with that exact name between 1966 and 2000. Suggests he passed away in April 1970 at an address in Sevenoaks, Kent... ...That blows my hope of finding a record showing an individual passing in the early 1990s in Southampton.

[dave walsh]

Yes fascinating to see the man himself but it's page 136! What 'will' turn up next I wonder?

Dave

[sparkymike]

Seeing the underside of the record player board, it definitely looks home made to me. Hopefully that lamp was low voltage or inaccessible to prying fingers !!
My late ex wife married a chap by the name of Francis from Dartford Kent.
I can make enquiries to find out if he was a relation to the above gent.
Those feet brackets look to me like the type that a lot of furniture had in early 60's and round thin long feet screwed in, usually splaying out at an angle.
One question to Wessex. Is the gap between the shelves high enough to stand a 12" record in ?
Mike.

[Radio_Dave]

Originally Posted by WessexWill

I also wonder if the current base is not original: there appear to be/at one point were attachments for feet (2 remain, 2 missing).

That base is definitely not original. Those plates look like the the remains of castors to me, you can see where the ball bearings have marked the circular U channel. This is a kind of an odd thing to have on a radiogram which should never need to move. It just adds to the mystery!

David

[Herald1360]

I would say that the motor board has been modified for a replacement deck rather than home made. Probably to go from a 78 only to a later multispeed model.

It would seem consistent with being owned by an engineer as H E Francis was.

Perhaps it survived to be house clearance from the estate of a descendant?

[PaulR]

Originally Posted by Radio_Dave

This is a kind of an odd thing to have on a radiogram which should never need to move. It just adds to the mystery!David

But if it was originally used an a ballroom, hotel or similar before Mr Francis repurposed it then it might have been brought out for use then put away again. Admittedly castors would not exactly be helpful on a ship!