UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > General Vintage Technology > General Vintage Technology Discussions

Notices

General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 11th Feb 2019, 3:00 pm   #1
chriswood1900
Octode
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dorridge, West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 1,474
Default Traditional ways of tying cables together.

In many older items the cables are tied together with a linen cord wrapped in standard way, can anyone assist in explaining how to achieve this or point me to a source as I don't want to use plastic ties on a on old item it just looks wrong.
Many thanks
Chris
chriswood1900 is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2019, 3:09 pm   #2
snowman_al
Octode
 
snowman_al's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Llandeilo, West Wales, UK.
Posts: 1,092
Default Re: Traditional ways of tying cables together.

Its called 'lacing'.
Several youtube videos on it. Spacing the knots is the thing that makes it...
You can get round and flat lacing cord, what ever suits.

Alan
__________________
Never Leave Well Enough Alone...
snowman_al is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2019, 4:34 pm   #3
M0FYA Andy
Nonode
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 2,510
Default Re: Traditional ways of tying cables together.

Just Google 'Cable Lacing', there are loads of pictures and articles describing how to do it.

I recommend waxed lacing cord, much better IMHO than plastic-coated, it stays where you put it.

Andy
M0FYA Andy is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2019, 4:54 pm   #4
emeritus
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
Posts: 5,316
Default Re: Traditional ways of tying cables together.

You can get waxed whipping twine from boat chandlers in a range of different diameters and colours.
emeritus is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2019, 5:23 pm   #5
boxdoctor
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ripley, Derbyshire, UK.
Posts: 785
Default Re: Traditional ways of tying cables together.

There seems to be a vast choice here: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/cable.../cable-lacing/
Unfortunately they seem to have discontinued the natural fibre types in favour of all plastics materials. The prices are something of a shock, too!
I have the remains of a large roll of R.S. waxed lacing cord (Fibre ?) which I bought in the '60s. Still good and not lost its strength.
Emeritus suggestion (#4 above) seems an excellent way to get a robust, inexpensive substitute that is possibly better than 'proper' cord. I agree with MOFYA Andy that plastic cord tends not to remain in the intended place. Tony.
boxdoctor is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2019, 6:02 pm   #6
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Traditional ways of tying cables together.

The flat stuff is the best, makes a lovely job. Like most skills it takes a while to get it right, once mastered the results are sublime.
 
Old 11th Feb 2019, 7:40 pm   #7
emeritus
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
Posts: 5,316
Default Re: Traditional ways of tying cables together.

I hadn't actually tried using waxed whipping twine as lacing cord as I have a couple of large spools of the black plastic-covered stuff, but I tried it just now and it works well. The stuff I use comes on spools the size of 3" tape/cine spools. It turns out to be a convenient size, as the spool can be easily passed through the loops that you need to make when lacing up, and the twine cut to size on completion, reducing waste. I was taught how to use lacing cord by a wireman, whose name I can't recall, at Plessey, West Leigh, when I was a student, and it has been a useful skill.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Whipping twine .jpg
Views:	229
Size:	70.2 KB
ID:	178232  

Last edited by emeritus; 11th Feb 2019 at 7:48 pm.
emeritus is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2019, 8:52 pm   #8
chriswood1900
Octode
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dorridge, West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 1,474
Default Re: Traditional ways of tying cables together.

Thanks for all the responses, part of my problem was remembering what it was called to Google it, I will order some up and give it a try.
Regards
Chris
chriswood1900 is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2019, 9:52 pm   #9
stainless
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 70
Default Re: Traditional ways of tying cables together.

I learnt to do cable lacing whilst I was at Decca (Navigator). I remember that there was a special Decca way of doing it - but can't remember the details now, sadly. The intermediate knots had some extra twists, so that if the cord broke (in service), the knots would not come undone. The start and finish had (something like) a knot round all the wires, then a knot round one wire, then a knot round all the wires, close together. A pity I can't remember the details.
stainless is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2019, 1:39 am   #10
Refugee
Dekatron
 
Refugee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 5,549
Default Re: Traditional ways of tying cables together.

Necklace cord is good and is also thin enough to work as tuning cord. It is waxed too.
Refugee is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2019, 3:32 am   #11
Terry_VK5TM
Nonode
 
Terry_VK5TM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tintinara, South Australia, Australia
Posts: 2,324
Default Re: Traditional ways of tying cables together.

Just one word of caution when you come to any "old" lacing, as in a vintage piece of gear with the original lacing - much of it was arsenic impregnated.

Found that out the hard way when doing my training at a telecoms outfit way back when ('elf un safety, whats that?).
__________________
Terry VK5TM
https://www.vk5tm.com/
Terry_VK5TM is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2019, 4:42 am   #12
Argus25
No Longer a Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Maroochydore, Queensland, Australia.
Posts: 2,679
Default Re: Traditional ways of tying cables together.

I have used silk thread that works very well too.

One thing to remember, about lacing wires into looms, the not so obvious: Some wires do not belong in a loom.

These are ones in high Z low signal level parts of the circuit, that are prone to stray pickup, or affected by increased capacitance. Binding them close to others carrying AC signals or just other wires, is a very bad idea.

The worst example I once saw of this was a wire leading to the control grid of a CRT. While the AC cross talk wasn't too bad because the sensitivity of of the CRT grid is not high for any significant changes in contrast, the capacitance had increased so much by lacing it into a loom, that the HF response of the image was significantly degraded. This application is better with a free wire with small supports in occasional places to keep it way from other wires and the chassis.
Argus25 is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2019, 9:15 am   #13
G4YVM David
Heptode
 
G4YVM David's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Salisbury, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 998
Default Re: Traditional ways of tying cables together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry_VK5TM View Post
Just one word of caution when you come to any "old" lacing, as in a vintage piece of gear with the original lacing - much of it was arsenic impregnated.

Found that out the hard way when doing my training at a telecoms outfit way back when ('elf un safety, whats that?).
What was the effect on you Terry?
__________________
David, G4YVM.
G4YVM David is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2019, 10:31 am   #14
Terry_VK5TM
Nonode
 
Terry_VK5TM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tintinara, South Australia, Australia
Posts: 2,324
Default Re: Traditional ways of tying cables together.

General feeling of being unwell, headaches and funny taste in the mouth from memory, very out of the ordinary for an overactive teenager.

Found out via a blood test if memory serves correctly.

Bear in mind we were using this stuff for days on end lacing mainframes and equipment racks, so pulling it out from the odd bit of equipment should have minimal if any effect, just make sure you wash your hands thoroughly afterwards.

And for those wondering why it was even in the twine - to deal with rodents chewing on the cabling.
__________________
Terry VK5TM
https://www.vk5tm.com/
Terry_VK5TM is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2019, 11:12 am   #15
Omegaman
Hexode
 
Omegaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 250
Default Re: Traditional ways of tying cables together.

This is a document I made by tidying up an old Navy publication.
Any help?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf How To Lace Cable Harnesses.pdf (225.6 KB, 143 views)
__________________
Howard G7AJN/M3OCL

"How hard can it be?" - Jeremy Clarkson
Omegaman is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2019, 12:34 pm   #16
Diabolical Artificer
Dekatron
 
Diabolical Artificer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Sleaford, Lincs. UK.
Posts: 7,633
Default Re: Traditional ways of tying cables together.

I use this method myself using artificial rawhide, mainly because it's very strong and I have a big roll of it. I start with a constrictor knot, which is just a clove hitch really with an extra turn. I then use a sort of blanket stitch for most of the lacing, or in other words a running granny not type thing. I put clove hitch in every 10 turns or so to keep the completed lacing from slipping, finishing off with a constrictor knot. I put a little dab of super glue on the knot, just in case.

Andy.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170408_111205.jpg
Views:	152
Size:	108.4 KB
ID:	178303  
__________________
Curiosity hasn't killed this cat...so far.
Diabolical Artificer is online now  
Old 13th Feb 2019, 2:06 pm   #17
Martin G7MRV
Heptode
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 949
Default Re: Traditional ways of tying cables together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omegaman View Post
This is a document I made by tidying up an old Navy publication.
Any help?
Ive always wanted to know how this was done, many thanks for that link!
__________________
I got food in ma belly and a license for ma telly

My Blog - http://g7mrv.blogspot.com
Martin G7MRV is online now  
Old 13th Feb 2019, 5:24 pm   #18
Andrew2
Nonode
 
Andrew2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dukinfield, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 2,033
Default Re: Traditional ways of tying cables together.

Cor, the memories! We were taught lacing at college in the late 60's and I found it quite therapeutic. Along, around, behind around er..... I think we used PVC cord.
I'm always impressed when I open up some old clobber and see a beautifully laced cable loom.
__________________
Andy G1HBE.
Andrew2 is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2019, 5:30 pm   #19
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Traditional ways of tying cables together.

Another method is individual clove hitches, very handy for PTFE wire because the lateral tension in a "standard" lace just makes the loops slip along the bundle.
 
Old 15th Feb 2019, 9:04 pm   #20
Dave1000
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: East Midlands, UK.
Posts: 36
Default Re: Traditional ways of tying cables together.

Lacing is not dead....

I work for RR in Derby and although I haven't checked recently I doubt that the looms on Trent 700s have changed - all hand laced. A long way from radios, but the effect is the same - so much more "professional" than the woven plastic "Chinese Finger Trap" sheathing that is used on the other Trents.
Dave1000 is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 9:49 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.