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Vintage Amateur and Military Radio Amateur/military receivers and transmitters, morse, and any other related vintage comms equipment. |
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7th Dec 2018, 8:38 pm | #21 |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 2,511
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
There were all sorts of things considered acceptable in the past which simply aren't any more, and this typical example of ham-bodgery is certainly one of them!
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7th Dec 2018, 8:59 pm | #22 |
Octode
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ross-on-Wye, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 1,654
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
Andy,
and I never quite understood why the DF system was "useless". It suggest rather that the users of the set were lacking the competence to use the system offered to them. Richard |
7th Dec 2018, 9:01 pm | #23 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK.
Posts: 8,195
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
Hi Gents, one of the 1155 collectors in Cumbria has managed to get this section working and displaying on a meter with a simple, homemade D/F aerial.
Ed |
7th Dec 2018, 11:27 pm | #24 |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 2,511
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
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7th Dec 2018, 11:49 pm | #25 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 4,400
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
The DF circuitry was both innovative and had an excellent effectiveness/complexity intersect- it's a shame that users weren't more appreciative of its presence in the past. As mentioned, the set's pluggery lends itself to external PSU/AF output configuration anyway, and leaving the DF circuitry in would have lent an extra MW/LW DX aspect to operation apart from the historic interest aspect.
I guess we're back to the difference between a time of plenty and a time of rare historical significance again, though. |
8th Dec 2018, 12:22 am | #26 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex.
Posts: 5,817
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
This is one of the best explanations re the R1155 geometry that I have come across. It acknowledges that the DF circuitry was for another place and another time. As far as I can see, the post war emphasis would be on getting a decent communications receiver for a minimum outlay so everything perceived as irrelevant, was in the way and an unnecessary load on the PSU! In the context of the floating negative chassis etc the less circuitry to deal with the better! It isn't an easy set to work on [in some ways] as I'm told but eventually a previous thread on here pointed out that the expected operational life might be as low as 6 weeks...so ease of servicing-sadly-was not a factor!
I hope that "sadly" is appropriate here. It's very common to say that someone "sadly died" these days but I think it really jars! You don't know whether they were sad or not! The sad emotion is yours-which is why there should be a pause. Difficult to grasp I know but useful if you can't come up with anything else. It's a bit like apparently intelligent young people at University saying "LIKE" in every sentence because it's a multiple term like "Innit" ie didn't I /Isn't It /Wouldn't I ..it goes on !" When all that disappears it might be progress. Restricted code languages have a purpose but they don't help in the end. The Cockney East Enders thing is "I went down the Pub didn't I ?" Easily disassembled by " I don't know-did you? " Last edited by dave walsh; 8th Dec 2018 at 12:51 am. |
8th Dec 2018, 2:00 am | #27 |
Hexode
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 363
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
Rather a harsh criticism of what was a perfectly good way of using the 1155 at the time, also as regards the DF circuits they were not needed by radio amateurs then, I don't think it was lacking the competence to use them.
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8th Dec 2018, 2:11 am | #28 |
Hexode
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 363
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
Please enlighten me as to what these incompetents could have done with the DF system, buy a Lancaster bomber to go with it!.
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8th Dec 2018, 10:13 am | #29 |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 2,511
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
The issue is that removing the entire DF circuitry is simply not necessary. To reduce the load on the PSU just unplug the three DF valves. Building an external PSU is easier than shoe-horning one into a chassis not designed for one, and adding an audio amplifier to this unit is easy, as is a loudspeaker.
You don't need a Lancaster to demonstrate the DF functionality, it works perfectly well on the ground! I have a suspicion that a lot of these popular modifications (the WS19 was another candidate) were the result of magazine editors needing to fill their pages with a lengthy article rather than just 'plug your PSU into connector x and switch on'. Andy |
8th Dec 2018, 10:26 am | #30 | |
Octode
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ross-on-Wye, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 1,654
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
Quote:
The usefulness of knowing angles of arrival of signals to amateurs will obvious vary. For those who simply using radio as a substitute for a telephone, i.e. as a cheap means of communications (which did make some sense in the 40s, 50s and 60s!) - then its probably of no interest. For those interested in propagation and optimising of aerials etc, I would have thought this to be of great interest. And the DF system is not something that's hard to set up. The original 2 needle meters are still about these days (and presumably back then would have been around in abundance). The DF loops themselves do exist - but like so many things are now rare and expensive. Modern replicas are easy to make and unlike many HF aerials don't demand loads of space. I presume the original DF loops are now rare because amateurs who bought surplus back in the 40s, 50s and 60s turned their noses up at " useless aerial"! Richard |
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8th Dec 2018, 11:39 am | #31 |
Octode
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Littlehampton, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 1,465
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
My R1155N worked extremely well in DF mode using an original loop and twin needle meter with amazing signal strength when the loop was matched.
I put a picture of it working with a bright magic eye on here some years ago but can’t find it now. I know of several others who used the system with a home made loop. Jim Last edited by G4XWDJim; 8th Dec 2018 at 12:06 pm. |
8th Dec 2018, 12:30 pm | #32 | |
Triode
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: College Station, Texas, USA.
Posts: 11
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
Quote:
By the way, being reluctant to shell out the rather exorbitant-seeming prices for a VR102 dual triode for the DF section, I found that a 6SN7 and a home-build octal-octal adapter does the job quite satisfactorily. Chris |
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8th Dec 2018, 2:37 pm | #33 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 9,642
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
Back then 1155s were commonly available just about anywhere in the Country in all conditions from battered to brand new in transit crates. Meters less so, but I don't recall the loops being commonly advertised.
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8th Dec 2018, 3:52 pm | #34 |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 2,511
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
I imagine it was a combination of the loop aerials being scrapped with the aircraft whereas the Receivers and Transmitters and other easy to remove units were saved, combined with the aerials being reliable passive items so not many were held as spares in the stores.
Andy |
8th Dec 2018, 8:22 pm | #35 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK.
Posts: 8,195
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
Hi Gents, seeing Chris's comments ref the VR102 and a 6SN7 sub with base change, does anyone know if there is a more modern valve that is a more exact equivalent than the 6SN7 where, if miniature, an adaptor base could be made up.
Ed |
8th Dec 2018, 8:44 pm | #36 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 14,007
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
ECC82 is the nearest B9A equivalent to the 6SN7. As with all substitutions you may need to tweak the bias a bit but to be honest pretty much any medium-gain double-triode will work just fine in such a non-critical application (despite what the hi-fi purists will try and tell you)
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9th Dec 2018, 12:45 am | #37 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 4,400
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
The VR102 is an odd beast with its relatively high 1.3A heater current, presumably necessary to generate sufficient emission to decisively drive the L/R meter needles, the 6SN7 has quite a high 0.6A heater current. As well as the ECC82, the 6/30L2 and 2C51 double triodes could also be worth trying, as valves with less familiar codes not fitting Pro-electron sequencing may be less likely to attract mad prices! There are also a few ECC82-type double triodes with fairly high heater current and low anode impedance from ex-Eastern Bloc sources.
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9th Dec 2018, 8:42 pm | #38 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK.
Posts: 8,195
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
Thanks Gents, I'll have a play with those types later
Ed |
10th Dec 2018, 12:05 am | #39 |
Hexode
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 363
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
I do understand the pleasure and satisfaction of restoring an 1155 to pristine condition after all thats what this hobby is all about preserving such items hopefully for future generations to enjoy.Having said that i still think the incompetence reference was undeserved. Graham.
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10th Dec 2018, 4:14 pm | #40 |
Pentode
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Swansea, Wales, UK.
Posts: 144
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Re: R1155 Power supply question
I think I showed competence when I modified my R1155 at the age of 15. I could afford no better receiver then, but the bandwidth was much too wide for CW on the amateur bands. DF valve positions became a q-multiplier to provide narrow band single-signal reception, and a 6V6 audio amplifier. To give full break-in working I modified the bias arrangements for muting by back-contact on key-up. A scrapped domestic wireless provided many parts. I passed the morse test, RAE, and had my licence at 17.
Now I'm 75 I don't worry what people might say about me. 73, Andrew |