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Old 6th Jun 2019, 6:04 pm   #1
woodchips
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Default Peeling away my life one layer at a time. Dispose of data books?

Finally decided that I need the room rather than 1000+ data books.

Trouble is, going through them is rather like replaying my engineering history in slow motion. The 8X300, PDP11, Intel 8085, AMD 2900, 6800/09, 68000, 56001 etc etc.

When I used to read these books, every last word, to discover what I had missed in getting PIC16Cxxx interrupts to work, what ifs like the 96002, HC11, MSP430 etc.

And the skill and thought necessary to get something to run, in 2K, and in less than a fortnight. I hate modern electronics, stick another processor or ten in, and 2GB memory.

Talking to a farmer some time back and they described, or tried to describe, the feeling when the land was sold. Same here, except that they at least got well paid for the land, data books are of no interest, 'it is all on the internet'.

Keeping the basic TI TTL, linear etc, also all the 1970's or earlier books, might be useful fixing the old calculators I have.

Shuffle off into the sunset.
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 6:20 pm   #2
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Default Re: Peeling away my life one layer at a time

That's more than I have.

I put up 2 8-foot shelves in my kitchen (I am not married, OK ) and they are full of just data books. So if the average data book thickness is 1", that's a couple of hundred books or so.

And I am keeping the lot. Yes I do need the Transputer instruction set book, the AM2901 datasheet, the VS10G Trochotron data, etc.

You mentioned the PDP11, I have another shelf in another room full of those DEC handbooks. And yes I need them (although often I have to go upstairs for the printset...)

Finally if it's not too late, don't throw them away, offer them here. There are people who want obscure data books.
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 6:59 pm   #3
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Default Re: Peeling away my life one layer at a time

Hi Gents,
I too have a similar quantity of data books and all occasionally come in very useful. It would be good if they could all be uploaded to the web for public access, but I don't think that will happen soon.

Ed
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 7:19 pm   #4
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Default Re: Peeling away my life one layer at a time

There are some databooks (mostly ICs for computer-related stuff) on bitsavers here :

http://www.bitsavers.org/components/

I find that very useful, but I also like the paper databooks.
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 7:53 pm   #5
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Default Re: Peeling away my life one layer at a time

The internet isn't going to be around when you really need it, databooks are always good to have, we are really just custodians, aren't we?
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 8:00 pm   #6
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Default Re: Peeling away my life one layer at a time

That thread title sounds painful!

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Old 6th Jun 2019, 8:04 pm   #7
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Default Re: Peeling away my life one layer at a time

Quote:
Finally decided that I need the room rather than 1000+ data books.
It's probably the right thing to do... 25 years ago where I work every engineer used to have two wardrobe sizes bookcases and a three tier filing cabinet (and a desk and a bench) in their little kingdom. This was crammed with all the classic app notes, databooks and theory books. This collectively formed our own 'internet' and this stuff was highly treasured. But eventually, the company grew rapidly and we needed the space in a new building. So all of it had to go and this was maybe 20 years ago.

From the company point of view they could fit more engineers into the freed up space and so we all started using electronic versions of the above. It caused uproar at first because it was so hard to let it all go. But in hindsight it was the right thing to do. I did save a few classic databooks and I have them here at home. But only a dozen or so. I do read most of them now and again but some need to be binned.

If you have 1000+ databooks at home(!), my advice would be to bin everything apart from stuff you can't (reliably) back up electronically and try not to look back!
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 8:14 pm   #8
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Default Re: Peeling away my life one layer at a time

The biggest problems I have with old data-books are first having to remember _which_ book a particular bit of data I need is in, and then working out "is that book on one of the bookshelves, in one of the boxes under the bed, in the attic, or did I actually throw it out when I moved house 15 years ago?"

The attic-bookstore has spiders and the boxes under the bed have dust! Both lack easily-searchable indexing - so I spend five minutes with my friend Mr. Google to see if he has the answer I need - which he generally does - avoiding the need for me to get dusty or spiders-webbed.
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Old 7th Jun 2019, 12:11 am   #9
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Default Re: Peeling away my life one layer at a time

I don't have many data books, maybe 20 or so, and only really regularly use a few, valve and transistor pinouts and parameters etc, but I still much prefer to look through them rather than entering multiple searches on the web only to have 2 million plus "hits", most of which are misleading or dead ends. Same with old catalogues. I find it easier thumbing through an old catalogue such as the ones Maplins, Cirkit, even RS Components. Full of component data and inspirational, even if the components on offer were obsolete many years ago...I would never dispose of old radio and TV related books. It's just not the same going through pages on a screen. I find it labour intensive and tiring. Maybe that's just me being a bit stuck in my ways. What happens if the web has major technical issues (oh it can't possibly go wrong...it's digital!) and all of that information is lost. I know all about the importance of backing up data but when everything is stored on "the cloud" who knows what could happen after a particularly nasty cyber attack?
Alan (not that I am paranoid)
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Old 7th Jun 2019, 12:51 am   #10
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Default Re: Peeling away my life one layer at a time

For the first few months in my first proper job I had a desk in the data library. On one wall there were hundreds of data books while the middle of the room included filing cabinets and a drawing cabinet containing the original circuit diagrams for all our designs. While most people had their own copies of the commonly used parts (like the RCA CMOS book), we all knew where to find information on the less common parts.

I now have my own library of pdfs stored in a couple of places although it is often just as easy to go to one of the suppliers websites and look at the datasheet on there.
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Old 7th Jun 2019, 1:04 am   #11
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Default Re: Peeling away my life one layer at a time

Yes, I think it can get a bit stressful when searching for stuff on the web, especially when it comes to repeat searches for the same item and I find I can't find it anymore...

My solution to this issue was to create a 'My Ebooks' folder for my theory books. All the electronic versions of my classic theory books (I have about 100) go in sub folders with suitable classifications, eg RF Amplifiers, Antenna Theory, PLL, Receiver Design, EMC, Filter Design etc. I also keep interesting application notes here as well.

I also have a 'My Databooks' Folder on my computer and this has sub Folders according to the manufacturer. I've collected many Gb of databooks. I have various crib sheets next to each databook with shortcut info to pages that contain favourite devices. I also have a My DataSheets Folder with a few favourite parts for classic ICs, diodes, BJTs and JFETs etc.

It has taken years to create all the above and I have the same system at work. It works really well for me and it is essentially an electronic version of the old shelves and the filing cabinet. I always have the internet for new stuff and I add new items to the folders quite regularly. I've added a few old databooks this evening after revisiting the bitsavers website that was linked to by TonyDuell.

I do the same for all my test gear manuals and I include manuals for household goods in this system too.
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Old 7th Jun 2019, 10:01 am   #12
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Default Re: Peeling away my life one layer at a time

I only have a few data books, all I need with my very limited requirements but I had four, four drawer filing cabinets crammed with service manuals for domestic, military and amateur radio stuff.

I’ve been selling and giving it away for years and I’m now down to one cabinet with a very large pile of manuals to give away at my forthcoming event. It’s amazing how it all builds up! I feel much better for seeing it go and helping someone else fill their house up.

Jim
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Old 7th Jun 2019, 10:13 am   #13
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Default Re: Peeling away my life one layer at a time

I like databooks, but TBH virtually everything I need from a design point of view is on-line. It's rare that I consult a printed copy.

When I do, it's usually an old data book when trying to resolve an obsolescence problem. My SEI data book, for Genalex toroidal cores, is an example. I may look at it twice a year, no more. But when I need it, it's invaluable!
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Old 7th Jun 2019, 10:29 am   #14
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Default Re: Peeling away my life one layer at a time

All my datasheets, manuals, user guides plus the hand-drawn schematics of some of the daft projects I've plugged in(!), are in box-files under the bed. Six box-files in all, and when an item has been given away or sold, the relevant paperwork goes with it. Once a few more sets have been moved on, the box-files will reside in the workshop.

Am very lucky in having a tolerant Mrs M2C, whilst it's true you can find most, if not all the data I have on-line, the books which belonged to my grandfather (an electrician during the war years), complete with his signature, proudly grace the bookcase in the lounge. These engineering books, plus the Victorian medical books from my great-grandfather, who was an electrical wireman circa 1910, also reside in said bookcase. Seeing handwriting and home addresses from your forefathers is as moving as it is chilling, especially when you discover what they went through and where they were when these books had been written in.

Mark
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Old 7th Jun 2019, 10:34 am   #15
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Default Re: Peeling away my life one layer at a time

Bin them and carry on with your life - it's too easy to get burdened with stuff that isn't important to you any more.

I'd offer them on the forum for one week and skip what hasn't been collected by the end of that - then at least you know you aren't throwing away anything important.
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Old 7th Jun 2019, 2:58 pm   #16
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Default Re: Peeling away my life one layer at a time

I empathise with that viewpoint, having seen in the last year just how much (and how frequently) a treasure-trove of what used to be regarded by the owner as highly-valued ephemera rapidly degenerates into inconvenient dross following a bereavement.


Guy
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Old 7th Jun 2019, 3:42 pm   #17
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Default Re: Peeling away my life one layer at a time

I didn’t really have much need for technical data/papers etc at home. My first employer, Pirelli cables, had a substantial technical library of its own including a librarian! Do you think this was commonplace with large engineering companies? The library was about the same floor space as, say, a modern 3 bedroom detached house.

My second employer, although smaller, had a smaller technical library and was a lot more informal in the way it was run. It eventually closed and I managed to get my hands on a couple of historically interesting textbooks which I still have.
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Old 8th Jun 2019, 10:23 am   #18
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Default Re: Peeling away my life one layer at a time

Hello,

Interesting subject.

As well as clearing out books you’ll no longer use, it also reflects the way engineers used to work. I suppose those books and magazines were an invaluable resource of information for design projects but seeing the rate electronics has progressed those interesting circuits in Magazines are now redundant. I suppose a few of examples of these are the Texas Texan, Mullard 5-10 and Radford amplifiers.

I suppose design is now internet driven with online design labs and workspaces.

Maybe I’m an ‘ole git, but I struggle to connect (no pun intended) with a circuit on a screen, whereas in book or magazine it has some tangibility, given this I end up printing the circuits out. Maybe this goes back to first seeing circuits in the Gilbert Davey Fun With and Newnes RTVS books in the local library. I can still remember excitedly finding the Mullard - Transistor Audio and Radio Circuits book in the school library!

Terry
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Old 8th Jun 2019, 6:22 pm   #19
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Default Re: Peeling away my life one layer at a time

While old data-books may have an attraction it's worth remembering that data becomes obsolete.

I recall one of my fellow designers back in the early-1980s who used one of the orange-jacketed Texas Instruments digital-books as a spec-source to produce a "PROM-Loader" card for a Z80-based SNA-over-X25 network-device (connecting IBM-3270 type display terminals over BT PSS/IPSS).

His first few wire-wrapped attempts worked just fine. Then it went to production, got turned into a multilayer PCB - and didn't work!

After a few nights/days of crazy caffeine-fuelled scoping, bus-analysing and glomper-clip fun he eventually complained to TI that their TMS27xx EPROM chips did not meet their timing-specs.

Only to be reminded by TI that the design-details he'd been using - and the chips in his prototype - were for pre-release samples and that a new spec had been issued some ten months before he started his design-project.

Equally, I remember a thread on this forum a while back with people panicking over the use of UY41/UY42 halfwave rectifiers on 250V supplies: the original valves were only rated to about 125V but shortly after initial release they were redesigned and upspecced to handle 250V mains.

Moral: Always check data from old sources to see if it's been updated.
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 4:22 pm   #20
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Default Re: Peeling away my life one layer at a time

Seems to be about 50:50 using paper or electrons. Is it significant that since I posted this I haven't had a sunset, been drizzling every day?

The bin men are going to have a shock in a weeks time!

Clearing out all the old encyclopaedias, proceedings etc some time ago, no interest, all went for scrap paper. Seems there is a shortage of room in modern houses.

Next problem, what to do with the 10,000 TTL/CMOS/etc chips and the 2,000 germanium transistors. At least the displays might be worth trying to sell.
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