Cossor 464ac - green?

[mark_in_manc]

Hi folks

I've been working on a Cossor 464ac. I think someone (not the twiddler!) has been here before - smoothing caps reformed alright on the lamp limiter, 6v6 cathode bypass and grid coupling caps had already been changed. I had to spray a good bit of Servisol into the wavechange switch, and take the volume pot apart to clean the track - and now it seems to be working really well, and stable.

It's missing its back, scale pointer and (of course) moulded clear plastic dial glass cover. I have some ideas for the latter - I wonder if anyone who has one of these would mind taking it apart to post pictures of the pointer? I think I see from online pics how it works, riding on a front edge of the chassis on a little folded-metal runner - but I'd like to make one as close as poss to what is missing.

In the context of doing a bit of googling, I see they were sometimes sprayed green. Mine has a crack in the case - not a big one, and at the rear, but perhaps a good excuse to make it a green one. SWMBO would probably like it better that way on the high shelf in the kitchen, which is where I'd like it to end up, relaying my favourite Mark_in_Manc pantry-AM (I need a jingle) from the front room via the radiators and heating pipework. The colour looks a bit like I used to paint the underside of Hurricanes and Spitfires when I was making Airfix kits as a boy - I wonder if Cossor got a job-lot of paint from the air ministry?

[Cobaltblue]

Yes the colour is Eau de Nil, puke green to me or you very fashionable after the war I have several different manufacturers who produced set in this colour.

If no one able to do it quicker I will drag one out of its case this evening.

Cheers

Mike T

[mark_in_manc]

Thanks Mike, I appreciate that.

I see I can buy rattle cans in this colour (puke, I like it, or maybe white-with-a-hint-of-snot) for not so much money - but since I recently found a small compressor in the street (needed a motor run cap ) and I have a couple of spray guns under the floor somewhere, it might be a good excuse to find out if I can get an OK result spraying gloss house paint.

I know it'll take ages to go off compared to cellulose, so the biggest problem may be avoiding dust and kamikaze flies. Well, if I get anywhere I'll write that bit up for the right bit of the forum.

I'll have to decide whether to paint the knobs white (like green ones were meant to have) or leave it looking like a half-eaten chocolate lime

[RobRusbridge]

Marc, don't spray household gloss. Mug's game. For a nicer old-world finish, go for enamel every time. You don't have to buy in tiny tins - buy a bigger tin of white (Granville do it as "metal paint" in 250ml or 500ml sizes), slop some in a clean jam-jar, then mix in a little bit of proper green from Revel or Humbrol to the right colour, thin with some white spirit, and it's time to kneel and spray. It won't take for ever to dry, you don't need a primer, and it self-levels as it dries to get rid of orange-peel and the like. When you think you've got enough on, final coat of white spirit and you'll have a lovely shine without the "plastic paint" look of car-can-paint. It even chips like the original as it gets old.

[Cobaltblue]

Here is a green one

If the pictures are not clear enough let me know the view you need

Yes the wavechange knob is not original but its one of the better substitutions I have seen !

Cheers Mike T

[mark_in_manc]

Thanks fellas - very helpful. Mike, I have enough idea to make something now. I wonder if I should have a look at LED bulbs - your tuning scale is a bit further down the road that mine has started on.

So now I've been googling for ages trying to work out the difference between Humbrol modellers enamel (thins with white spirit, or it did in the 70s) and Dulux house paint (also thins with white spirit). Confusingly some modellers seem to thin Humbrol with cellulose thinners for spraying. Hmm!

[Cobaltblue]

I have 7 or 8 of these, this one's tuning scale is worst than most!

Cheers

Mike T

[mark_in_manc]

Hmm, paint seems even more likely as this project develops. The case has a split at the rear, about 1.5" long. It's 'pinged' - the crack is open where it meets the rear of the cabinet - because somewhere inside the crack there is a lump of something irregularly-shaped which won't let the crack close and be glued. If I do a clamp up tight across this open crack (inside-outside case), it will either open a little more, ride over the 'bump' and snap back into place (yeah, right) or - the crack will open and run another 3 inches - or - the force of the clamp will start to pulverise the case under the point I clamp it. If I try to stretch the crack open and 'have a look' I invite total disaster from the brittle bakelite.

Ideas so far - a) grind into and along the crack with a dremel from the front (good face) till it snaps back, fill, and paint. b) grind along the back of the crack from inside, and try to remove obstruction from behind, leaving smooth glue-line on the outside (yeah, right) c) leave it alone and do something else.

Your thoughts, gentlemen?

On the upside, I've made a belting pointer, and a really good dial-glass-cover, the latter only let down by so-far being made of cornflakes box. I'm a heavy user of CAD, at home and at work - Cornflakes Aided Design.

[Andrewausfa]

Originally Posted by mark_in_manc

Confusingly some modellers seem to thin Humbrol with cellulose thinners for spraying. Hmm!

That's so you can get a really thin mix through an artists airbrush (mine will spray pencil thin lines) yet have a high pigment ratio. The cellulose thinner just 'flashes' off leaving the pigment. It slightly etches, for want of a better word, the surface for greater paint adhesion and dries almost instantly. If you tried to get the same thin mix with white spirit the paint would just drip and run everywhere as the evaporation rate is way too slow.

Andrew

[60 oldjohn]

Hi Gents, Nice to hear from you all again. Mark, I would be cautious of closing the crack, if there is something keeping it apart remove it but I wonder if it was stressed when it was made and this is a natural way of relaxing its self. In which case I would use slow setting (original) Araldite to give strength then "Dremel" the surface slightly and fill with "Milliput Fine" when set and sanded it will be paintable.
I used a piece of Perspex for the scale, It was a perfect fit and glued it in. Unfortunately Perspex expands more than the Bakelite and has started cracking the corner. I think it needed to be smaller and glued with possibly clear silicone.


John.

[mark_in_manc]

Argh, your pointer's white - I just painted mine (screwfix, primer) red And thanks Andrew - I'm a bit surprised that a white-spirit base will handle cellulose thinners without 'curdling', but it'll be fun to have a mess about.

I'm going to have to have a dig around in this crack. Hmmm, I'll try to get the swearing over with before I come back on here.

[60 oldjohn]

Hi Mark, I would have painted the pointer many years ago, I imagine it was originally white on this brown set but I'm not certain. The writing on the scale is a label stuck over the original screen print that was in very poor condition.

[Cobaltblue]

I just looked at 4 sets 1 green 2 black one brown in all cases the pointer is red.

There is an Ivory 464 on Ebay right now and the pointer is red.

Cheers

Mike T

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by Cobaltblue

Yes the colour is Eau de Nil, puke green to me .....

Oh that takes me back to working with Terry Wogan in the early to mid 70s - he would mockingly refer on air to it being the predominant colour of the studio!

I've never seen it but is the River Nile really that colour?

Alvin

[60 oldjohn]

Originally Posted by Cobaltblue

I just looked at 4 sets 1 green 2 black one brown in all cases the pointer is red.

There is an Ivory 464 on Ebay right now and the pointer is red.

Cheers

Mike T

Hi Mike, I may not have had any red paint at the time. Just shows how a minor inaccuracy can cause confusion years later.


John.

[Boater Sam]

I have a 464 on the bench at present. It has a plastic scale cover but very shrunken, it falls out.
The glass scale has been refitted at some time with metal shims and rubber tape under the 4 spring clips, it doesn't look original. This has cracked the glass across one corner but the screen printing is perfect. I've superglued it and it looks OK.
The back is present but missing one top corner.
It has been well played with, there are newish resistors tacked in and an extra slug tuned coil assembly on top of the aerial coils.
The 6V6G is missing and much of the wiring is falling apart. Mains transformer is good, as is the output transformer but may not be original, it is one one screw.
The cabinet is dirty and very dull but completely undamaged.
No volume knob, an odd tuning knob but an original wave change knob.
The pointer is missing on this one too, who pinches them and why? The tuning drum is strung but no sign of stringing for the pointer.
If it proves to be too much of a mess to restore I may break it up if anyone wants any parts, it stands me at a little money so no great loss. I just don't like breaking sets if there is no good use for the parts.

[mark_in_manc]

Well, I'm missing a back, but that doesn't sound like a good enough reason to break yours Wiring (cloth-covered stuff) is good in mine, just one flaky wire which goes to one of the top caps, which must have got a bit hot. I squished that crack shut with a small clamp and superglue, and went at it with decreasing grades of 'production paper' this morning (I have a stack courtesy of a contract years ago with 3M; the only perk they claimed to be able to offer me!). Finished off with autosol - not invisible, but it looks OK.

Next up - skinny perspex, carboard template, uncontrolled splitting, cracking and swearing.

[Cobaltblue]

Originally Posted by Alvin

I've never seen it but is the River Nile really that colour?

Well I have seen the Nile and the trouble is its different colours throughout its length and angle of the sun but I never saw any part of the Nile the colour of this set
Mind you things have changed and maybe the colour is very different when the Nile is in flood which I have not seen (but apparently it becomes black).

Cheers

Mike T

[Cobaltblue]

It's odd but these sets are often in poor condition compared to say DAC90's

I put it down to the following:

Poor quality knobs often broken/missing.
Shrinking or missing dial cover.
Paint peeling off the tuning scale.

Its a pity because the Chassis is heavy and the 6V6 gives it some clout into the tiny speaker (undersized for a set of this type in my opinion).

Missing pointers does seem to be another problem probably because there is nothing to keep the pointer on the set if the dial chord breaks.

Not one of my favourite sets

As for your white pointer John it makes your set stand out

Cheers

Mike T

[mark_in_manc]

I agree about the speaker - it seems a bit weedy for the heft of the rest of it, but it sounds OK.

Here's the show so far. I'm all in a quandary about the Puke Green treatment. What do you think?