Royalty has been paid on this apparatus...

[crackle]

I have added the information given so far into a spreadsheet.
I think it is still early days to draw definite conclusions, more information is needed.

Can someone confirm if the PYE P45 mentioned in #16 is a radio or TV and the date, as the licence number looks wrong.
Details of the Ekco MPB183 would be useful as I cant find reference to that model.

I have a HMV 1107 valve radio from 1940, the licence plate on that does not give a number.


One possible conclusion is that the Number A7-S or A6, etc. may have referred to the type of receiving licence the owner had to buy. The number may have changed over the years as the licence format was changed, and there was of course originally a different licence for TV reception and radio reception.
So any apparent connection with dates may purely be just a consequence.

But keep your examples coming and spread them over the decades.

Mike

[sexton_mallard]

The Pye P45 is a radio and I think dates from about 1953. Manufactured in Ireland.

[peter_scott]

It might just be my lack of observation but I don't think I've ever seen these licence plates in any of the Marconi-EMI pre-war televisions with or without radios.

Peter

[bluepilot]

Originally Posted by crackle

One possible conclusion is that the Number A7-S or A6, etc. may have referred to the type of receiving licence the owner had to buy.

As time goes by, technology progresses and new patents come along. I think it's more likely that A7-S includes patents that came into force around 1950 and A8-S includes patents that came into force around 1959 going by the dates in the spreadsheet.

We can speculate as to what they might have covered. Possibly something to do with FM maybe? However a lot of patents are for relative trivialities such as the shape of the plates of the tuning capacitor or using square knobs instead of round ones so it could really be anything.

[G6Tanuki]

One of the big participants in the pre- and immediately-post-WWII radio "Patent pools" was the US "Hazeltine Corporation" - in the 1930s they owned the worldwide patents on carrier-derived, and delayed, AGC - and licensed it out through their ~Hazelpat~ division. They also held patents on some parts of the NTSC TV implementation.

See https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...page&q&f=false

[Hazeltine Corporation are probably better known for their 1970s range of 'intelligent' computer-terminals which were at one time one of the standard display-devices supported by every minicomputer/mainframe: see http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/h2000.html ]

By the 1960s most of the patents covered by these patent-pools [and hence the need for the little license-stickers inside radios] had expired.

[Phil G4SPZ]

Originally Posted by crackle

Details of the Ekco MPB183 would be useful as I cant find reference to that model...

Yes, very sorry, a typo crept in The model number should read MBP183, otherwise known as the "Stroller III", a large-ish mains/battery portable from 1953:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/ekco_s...ii_mbp183.html

[Synchrodyne]

The A7-S and A7-T patent licenses were announced in the first part of 1953 and covered the period 1953 December 01 to 1957 December 31, details in the attachment:



Note that the licences were forward-looking in that they covered new patents from the participants in their validity period.

On the separate UK broadcast receiving licence issue, a chronology was provided in the book "Radio! Radio!" pp.225-6.


Cheers,

[Phil G4SPZ]

Thanks for finding that, it certainly seems to answer the question. The licence fee, at 3% of net turnover (not profit) for TV receivers, would have been a significant sum. Is it fair to assume, then, that the A8 licences ran from January 1958 onwards?

[ms660]

1932?

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/...rch=%22licence pool%22

Lawrence.

[1100 man]

I've just looked at several TV's & a radio. I would conclude that the number relates to the revision of the legislation then in force. The numbers seem to increase in chronological order.

Defiant Radio 1952. A6
Marconiphone VT161 TV 1959. A7- T.1
Pilot PT650 TV 1959. A7-T
Gec 2000 D/S TV 1964. A8-T

All the best
Nick

[crackle]

Sychrodine, regarding the WW article in your last post, I cant find it in the WW April 1953 page 170
The text is so small I cant read it.
Please can you show just the yellow part so it larger and can be read..
Or provide a link to the correct web page.
Thanks

I have added some more examples to my list,


Looking at the list I wonder if highlights an issue with the dates for the KB GR13T, Pye P45, KB HR10, and Defiant, as they don't seem to run in order.


Mike

[ms660]

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/...f#search=%22a7 s%22

Lawrence.

[crackle]

Thanks Lawrence

Reading the WW article would seem to indicate that my KB Nocturne has a TV licence plate A7-T, how odd.
I have just double checked it and it all looks original, attached with brass pins.

Mike

[Graham G3ZVT]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

By the 1960s most of the patents covered by these patent-pools [and hence the need for the little license-stickers inside radios] had expired.

Another reference to (The) Broadcast Licencing Pool here.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...ool%22&f=false

[Graham G3ZVT]

Originally Posted by crackle

Reading the WW article would seem to indicate that my KB Nocturne has a TV licence plate A7-T, how odd.
I have just double checked it and it all looks original, attached with brass pins.

You wouldn't want to cross that F. C. Topham, he had some influential friends.

"Evidence was given on behalf of the Plaintiffs by H. A. Gill, C. E. Prince,
F. C. Topham and A. D. Blumlein."

https://watermark.silverchair.com/50...06Vq8TwsjKazpT
Page 292

[Philips210]

Hi

A few more to add to the database:


Bush TR90D A8-S plate
Cossor Melody Maker 549 A7-S plate
Ferguson 346B A7-S plate
GEC BC505 A8-T plate
Philips 141U A6 plate
Philips L2G21T A8-S plate
Pye Type P75 A7-S plate
Pye Type P131MBQ A7-S plate
Pye Q5 A7-S plate
Roberts R500 A8-S plate

A couple stand out, an A6 plate on the Philips 141U and an A8-T plate on the GEC BC505.

Quite a few sets in my possession of a similar period say 1950s to 1960s don't seem to have any licence plate. For example GEC BC5445, Ferranti 545, Ferguson 621U and Philips 523UB.

I'll try to add some more sets in due course.

Regards
Symon

[Philips210]

Originally Posted by rambo1152

You wouldn't want to cross that F. C. Topham, he had some influential friends.

...with a name like that it's no wonder!

Symon

[Radio Wrangler]

At the time they came on like the mob.

David

[crackle]

Here is are the latest additions to the licence types. Another wrong TV licence one has turned up on a GEC radio.

I have been searching through my KB & ITT-KB transistor radios from 1965 to 1970, and none seem to have a licence plate, but is that because they fell off all of the dozen or so I checked, or did the practice of using these licence plates expire then. Maybe it is because they were not based on British registered designs.

Mike

[Synchrodyne]

I suspect that the setmakers were not always fully diligent in making sure that sets were despatched with a licence plate or that the plate indicated the correct licence for the time period. Also it is not clear whether a set designed and first built in one licensing period, but whose manufacture extended into the next period, should carry the licence number under which it was designed or the then-current licence number.

Here is some more information relating to the A3 licence circa 1930:

Cheers,