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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment.

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Old 16th Sep 2018, 6:22 pm   #21
nutteronthebus
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Default Re: Using a TV aerial to receive FM Radio!

Hi I have an aerial distribution box in the loft and you can input a FM/dab as well as UHF
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Old 16th Sep 2018, 8:32 pm   #22
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Default Re: Using a TV aerial to receive FM Radio!

Well back in the days of 405TV lots of sets had provision for FM radio reception and that worked OK so if it works well then stick with it!
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Old 16th Sep 2018, 8:56 pm   #23
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Default Re: Using a TV aerial to receive FM Radio!

Way back in days before VHF FM, my uncle told me it was common practice to use the TV socket as a source for the old AM radio. Indeed ,first installation we had had this arrangement. Sooner than use a splitter with it's ( at least 3 dB loss) , it might be better to use a wideband amp with at least two outlets.
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Old 16th Sep 2018, 10:30 pm   #24
'LIVEWIRE?'
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Default Re: Using a TV aerial to receive FM Radio!

All comments duly noted. As the diplexer was installed when this flat was built in 1966, it no doubt is designed only for Bands1 & 3(TV), particularly as, in those days the 625 line BBC2 UHF signal was converted to a spare VHF channel then fed via the communal aerial to all the houses & flats in this street. As I said, at the moment I've only used my TV aerial to check that a Hitachi music Centre's FM band works well (which it does), but I may use the TV aerial for my own FM receiver with one of those Antiference diplexers - should have at least one somewhere!.
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Old 17th Sep 2018, 12:20 pm   #25
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Default Re: Using a TV aerial to receive FM Radio!

I would have thought the only down side would be that the TV aerial wouldn't pick up some of the more distant stations, such as ILR out of your broadcast area. And doesn't the direction of the aerial affect the signal? The TV transmitter might be say to North West and radio stations say South West?
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Old 17th Sep 2018, 1:30 pm   #26
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Default Re: Using a TV aerial to receive FM Radio!

Your reasoning here is immaterial because, if you re-read post#1, you will see that he wants to do this because his UHF aerial works so well as proved by practical experiment.

Therefore, whilst I'm sure that we can all see the logic behind your post, it is irrelevant in this specific case!
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Old 17th Sep 2018, 1:33 pm   #27
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Default Re: Using a TV aerial to receive FM Radio!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubhead View Post
I would have thought the only down side would be that the TV aerial wouldn't pick up some of the more distant stations, such as ILR out of your broadcast area. And doesn't the direction of the aerial affect the signal? The TV transmitter might be say to North West and radio stations say South West?
The UHF TV aerial will pickup little signal from the VHF transmitters, most is probably received on the downlead or aerial mast.

If it works then that’s what matters.
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Old 17th Sep 2018, 1:33 pm   #28
'LIVEWIRE?'
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Default Re: Using a TV aerial to receive FM Radio!

As I noted earlier, at least using the Hitachi M/C, I can receive literally dozens of FM Transmitters via the TV aerial, which points S.East towards the Beckley Transmitter. Since my listening is mainly to Radio2,3, 4, Oxford, & Classic FM, and seldom anything else, I'm more likely to be concerned if interference is caused by unwanted signals, which, so far, isn't a problem
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Old 17th Sep 2018, 1:48 pm   #29
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Default Re: Using a TV aerial to receive FM Radio!

Antenna theory says that an antenna which is perhaps 20% of the correct size will pick up some signal, which may be enough for broadcast reception. Alternatively, it could be leaky coax pickup. Any balun in the TV antenna will not do anything useful in the FM band so it is likely that the coax outer will play a role even if a perfect screen.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 8:30 pm   #30
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Default Re: Using a TV aerial to receive FM Radio!

I'm using a 1970s 405 line dipole aerial in the loft still connected by the old thin aerial cable to the TV and I get excellent Freeview HD pictures it also works well on my old Leak tuner amp.
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 10:40 am   #31
terrykc
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Default Re: Using a TV aerial to receive FM Radio!

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The information's out there, you just have to let it in.
Well, that 'old thin aerial cable' will be so poorly screened it is really a leaky feeder - which can work both ways.

However, Manchester is a big place and it would help in evaluating your post to have some idea where - not a specific geographical location but distance from transmitter, elevation, unobstructed view, etc
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 11:02 am   #32
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Default Re: Using a TV aerial to receive FM Radio!

It's always the same. Whenever anyone mentions - perhaps just out of interest than anything else - that "this piece of wet string does the job of pulling in these stations", people queue up to tell you how 'wrong' it is, or how you could get a better signal. They're missing the point!
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 1:25 pm   #33
G8HQP Dave
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Default Re: Using a TV aerial to receive FM Radio!

No, we are not missing the point. The point is that wet string is a poor antenna, but broadcast signals are often strong enough that this does not matter. Unfortunately, some people go on to advocate wet string as a good antenna (it is not) or to make negative comments about antenna theory (of which they usually know very little).
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 2:37 pm   #34
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Default Re: Using a TV aerial to receive FM Radio!

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Originally Posted by G8HQP Dave View Post
No, we are not missing the point. The point is that wet string is a poor antenna, but broadcast signals are often strong enough that this does not matter. Unfortunately, some people go on to advocate wet string as a good antenna (it is not) or to make negative comments about antenna theory (of which they usually know very little).
Just to be sure, let's clarify for the sake of others who may not be aware, a 'piece of wet string' is an old engineer's phrase used to describe a makeshift aerial that works when the signal strength is high. It is in that capacity that I used the phrase.

No-one's doubting antenna theory, lest of all me, I've studied it in depth in the past, understanding a lot and finding other parts hard going. Antenna theory is the voodoo, the snake oil, the smoke and mirrors of the broad 'wireless' field. You can do all the theory stuff and sometimes, in some situation, the simplest of antennas just works. That's basically all I'm saying. Oh, and that some find that concept hard to swallow.

At the end of the day it is horses for courses. If a piece of 'wet string' does the job - for whatever the application - then so be it. You don't have to follow the rules in the golden book of antenna theory just to make it seem 'correct' in one's head. I actually love that about antennas. How sometimes unpredictable things can affect reception even on a perfect array, then at other times, in other situations the piece of wet string works.

I doubt if many are going away with the idea that a simple antenna is 'best', but reading this thread they may go away with the idea that as well as applying theory when fixing up an aerial, it's a good idea to experiment, you may get just what you want at a fraction of the bother and cost.
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 3:02 pm   #35
terrykc
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Default Re: Using a TV aerial to receive FM Radio!

Of course. the proverbial 'piece of wet string' works much better if you sprinkle some salt on it!
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 6:42 pm   #36
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Default Re: Using a TV aerial to receive FM Radio!

My car aerial is very tiny - a mere bump on the roof - and it works very well on LW, MW, FM and DAB. I suppose it feeds into a high impedance (very) wideband amplifier. How far does that invalidate all our vintage assumptions about aerials necessarily being tuned?

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Old 23rd Sep 2018, 1:17 am   #37
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Default Re: Using a TV aerial to receive FM Radio!

My car has a stubby aerial about 6 inches long and it looks like there are several coils wound around it.
It works fine but I usually play mostly recorded music in the car due to too many adverts and other interruptions.
The tuning display on the radio has now faded away except when the weather is very cold.
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Old 23rd Sep 2018, 7:36 am   #38
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Default Re: Using a TV aerial to receive FM Radio!

Remember that when VHF radio transmissions first started in the 1950s receivers were generally mains powered table models or radiograms and not very sensitive compared with today's models. It was assumed that they would be connected to a horizontally polarised rooftop aerial and the transmitter network planned around this.

The emergence of portables and car radios (generally with vertical aerials) led to higher powered transmitters, mixed polarisation and more local relays. The expectation now is that the proverbial piece of wet string will suffice in most areas.

I don't find it particuiarly surprising that a TV aerial / stray pick-up gives good reception within the service area of a high-powered transmitter.
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