The Audiophoolery Thread.

[Radio Wrangler]

There seem to be plenty of people prepared to help people expand their imagination, but virtually no-one prepared to help them extend their financial reach to match the costs of that imagination.

My imaginary friend can thump your imaginary friend, no bother!

David

[m0cemdave]

These things do actually work in one sense. They make the buyers feel happier about the experience they get from their hi-fi hobby.
It's analogous to somebody buying an expensive artwork for their living room, appreciation of which depends on the taste of the viewer. Or paying for entertainment which non-aficionados don't appreciate - opera, punk revival bands, grime rap shows, or whatever. Or wearing expensive designer clothing.

That being so, the products represent good value to them.

The objections from those of us brought up with a scientific background are to the unscientific claims made in marketing the items and selling the ideas and the lifestyle that goes with them.

[Radio Wrangler]

They advertise perfume on TV, and they must get a measurable return from it or they'd stop. So that has to be 100% lifestyle, 0% smell. Costs more than Talisker, too.

But you're right, Dave, I have no objections to people buying happiness. I'd like there to be more happy people in the world. It's when the pseudoscience gets rolled out in a desperate attempt at justification....

David

[Craig Sawyers]

Originally Posted by stevehertz

All very well, but the intrinsic psyche of the audiophile/phool is very often of the blind belief kind. Hence, a buyer of such expensive, exclusive, hifi fuses is more than likely able to 'hear' a difference and be perfectly satisfied with his purchase, chuffed in fact, and have no desire to return them. That's part of the whole audiophool thing; they hear what they want to hear and are happy to pay a lot of money for that plastic satisfaction. Audiophools have and are being conned into spending lots more money on much more nebulous things than fuses. Here's some wooden cable elevators (sold by Russ Andrews as it happens - and I didn't search for his name, just a product type): https://www.russandrews.com/cable-elevators-set-of-2-4227999...f0o59vvlaBhYz5zcPllWGBoCvawQAvD_BwE

I mean, come on, this is pure April 1st joke territory, anyone who believes that this improves the sound of a hifi system has to be .

Whether these work or not, a buyer believes they work or not, or you believe they work or not - at £8.50 each for a machined beech item is not financially a rip off.

I have my own (amateur) woodworking shop in the garage. Pretty well equipped with machine and hand tools. And I could not make and sell those, and make a small profit, for a selling price £8.50 a piece.

I guess you have to ask yourself a question - would you prefer that 12 hard working staff in a small facility in the Lake District keep their jobs in a tough market, or would you prefer to put them out of a job?

I can tell you first hand how precisely how tough it is in the audio world - in the early 90's I was CTO of Wharfedale. Just as the consumer recession hit. As suppliers of parts progressively put our account on hold, I pushed through the new development programme by using petty cash, driving to Farnell and buying bits across the counter for folding money. And I still lost my job. As did dozens of others including the CEO.

The consequence is that Wharfedale, and Quad, and Audiolab, and NAD and umpteen more decent companies are now owned by the Chinese. Apart from SME that is owned by an Indian chap, who has decided to no longer sell pickup arms to the public or OEM users as of December 3rd.

Anyway - from where I sit, regardless of your personal opinion about Russ Andrews products, I for one would prefer their staff to keep their jobs.

Craig

[evingar]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

They advertise perfume on TV, and they must get a measurable return from it or they'd stop. So that has to be 100% lifestyle, 0% smell. Costs more than Talisker, too.

David

Yes the parallels to audiophoolery are close
The markup for the stuff is stupendous.
circa $2 cost of churning out a $100 bottle - rest markup and marketing guff.

https://splashofscent.com/perfume-expensive/

We are seriously all in the wrong business. I propose a "conglomerate" one half churning out perfume, the other "special" fuses, and oxygen free interconnects ......... In the words of Delboy "This time next year we will Miwyunairs"

[The Philpott]

(Post No.1144) Yes indeed, that is the going rate for a small well finished beech item; they could even be selling them without profit to bulk out the product range and instigate impulse buys from customers making more expensive purchases. As to where that wood is actually being turned and polished...not sure. They could easily be coming out of a factory elsewhere that makes curtain poles- and their spacers....if the seller is making them in-house i can't see them being economic.

Dave

[dglcomp]

I prefer holders with fuse wire using 5A radials with no fuse in the plug, you see encapsulating the fuse traps the electricity whereas the fuse wire is not as encapsulated allowing the fuse wire to breathe more giving more air to the sound.

And as for burning in fuses, a fused outlet for an immersion heater should do the trick, a nice high amperage so should get the fuses nuce and warm making the burning in process not only quicker but more thorough.

[Ted Kendall]

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

...apart from SME that is owned by an Indian chap, who has decided to no longer sell pickup arms to the public or OEM users as of December 3rd.

How daft can you get? Bernie Ecclestone decided that preaching to the wealthy choir by removing Formula One from terrestrial television was the way forward. As a result, the financial viabilty of the sport entered a decline from which it has yet to emerge.

SME have done precisely the same thing. By setting the entry level for their products at many thousands of pounds, they have just removed themselves even from the asprations of 99.9%of the potential market, and their profile and profits will inevitably suffer. In Greek tragedy, hubris invites nemesis. Poor Alastair must be spinning in his grave.

[knobtwiddler]

Speaking as someone who runs a small UK OEM, the last thing I'd like to see is 12 people lose their jobs. However, I'd prefer to see them deployed in selling the latest uber-DAC or optical cartridge. Whereas no one can hear below -100, at least you can measure that your DAC has sufficient engineering integrity to render artefact below the threshold of hearing.

The problem with funky cables and the like is that one could argue they are part of a far more worrying malaise within society - where people are bamboozled into buying devices with zero proven benefit, but convincing patter. I recently got approached by someone who spent £10K on an acoustic device for treating prostate cancer. He is convinced it works and was highly upset when I refused to reverse-engineer it, so he could make a lower cost version to help people with the disease.

[dglcomp]

Originally Posted by knobtwiddler

Speaking as someone who runs a small UK OEM, the last thing I'd like to see is 12 people lose their jobs. However, I'd prefer to see them deployed in selling the latest uber-DAC or optical cartridge. Whereas no one can hear below -100, at least you can measure that your DAC has sufficient engineering integrity to render artefact below the threshold of hearing.

The problem with funky cables and the like is that one could argue they are part of a far more worrying malaise within society - where people are bamboozled into buying devices with zero proven benefit, but convincing patter. I recently got approached by someone who spent £10K on an acoustic device for treating prostate cancer. He is convinced it works and was highly upset when I refused to reverse-engineer it, so he could make a lower cost version to help people with the disease.

A bit like those fake bomb detectors the arm spent so much money on, tell people with enough persuasion that they work and no-one will question the functionality of said devices.

[Craig Sawyers]

Originally Posted by Ted Kendall

How daft can you get? Bernie Ecclestone decided that preaching to the wealthy choir by removing Formula One from terrestrial television was the way forward. As a result, the financial viabilty of the sport entered a decline from which it has yet to emerge.

SME have done precisely the same thing. By setting the entry level for their products at many thousands of pounds, they have just removed themselves even from the asprations of 99.9%of the potential market, and their profile and profits will inevitably suffer. In Greek tragedy, hubris invites nemesis. Poor Alastair must be spinning in his grave.

The interesing statistic is if you take the price of the classic SME 3009 arm, the selling price in 1984 was £84, which translates to about £300 in today's money. I bought mine as a Saturday salesman in Windows music store in Newcastle, in 1973. So they were affordable on slave wages as a 17 year old oik.

They are still making arms of course, but as of early December you can only buy them as part of a deck/arm package.

Now the entry price for an SME turntable/arm package is £15k (including a cartridge and phono stage). It goes up from thereprogressively to £35k without cartridge or amplification.

So they are now only selling to the exceptionally well heeled, who in all likelihood have no love of music, and just want what they perceive as "the best" regardless of price.

Craig

[joebog1]

Craig,
To go with that SME TT, you will need a set of Tannoy Westminster Royals.
Who is well heeled ?

Joe

[Cobaltblue]

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

So they are now only selling to the exceptionally well heeled, who in all likelihood have no love of music, and just want what they perceive as "the best" regardless of price.
Craig

I bought my SME3009 from Pete Russels Hot Record store in Plymouth in 1978 with my then girlfriend now wife, she thought I was mad to spend almost £100 on an arm

I don't think its fair to say the well heeled have no love of music after all many of the well heeled made their money in music

It's like saying the rich have no appreciation of cars so shouldn't be allowed to buy a Buggati Veyron.

I am done with foolery by more than 30 years I got off that tread mill when my my eldest son who just started to walk (1985) wrecked my V15 stylus and poked a hole in one of my Radford L90's Woofers. I repaired the speakers and put my whole HiFi away for more than 20 years. I still have that last set up but rarely use it.

I now mostly listen on one of my Amazon smart speakers or on my PC, I longer care much about the delivery more the content.

After all I first heard a lot of the music I listen to on a Fidelity Westminster and I was happy then.

Cheers

Mike T

[AC/HL]

Originally Posted by dglcomp

A bit like those fake bomb detectors the arm spent so much money on, tell people with enough persuasion that they work and no-one will question the functionality of said devices.

You just have to persuade them that they can't trust "expert" opinion. Then it's a logical next step to gradually instil trust in anything you want. Before long it's fact.

[knobtwiddler]

Originally Posted by AC/HL

You just have to persuade them that they can't trust "expert" opinion. Then it's a logical next step to gradually instil trust in anything you want. Before long it's fact.

It would be fascinating to know if the rise of Social Media has generated an uptick in the sales of far-out audio accessories.

Understanding the triggers for placebo effect could yield incredible advances in medical science. Audiophools could be our saviour!

[Craig Sawyers]

Thinking of the fake bomb detectors, who here remembers the fake oil detector back in 1979? The guy took the oil company Elf for $150m, with Giscard Destang and the whole French political establishment underwriting the sums. They then shredded key document citing military secrecy to cover up the hoax.

Turned out to be a moving map projected on the screen in the sniffer plane.

[Craig Sawyers]

Originally Posted by Cobaltblue

I bought my SME3009 from Pete Russels Hot Record store in Plymouth in 1978 with my then girlfriend now wife, she thought I was mad to spend almost £100 on an arm

I don't think its fair to say the well heeled have no love of music after all many of the well heeled made their money in music

It's like saying the rich have no appreciation of cars so shouldn't be allowed to buy a Buggati Veyron.

I am done with foolery by more than 30 years I got off that tread mill when my my eldest son who just started to walk (1985) wrecked my V15 stylus and poked a hole in one of my Radford L90's Woofers. I repaired the speakers and put my whole HiFi away for more than 20 years. I still have that last set up but rarely use it.

I now mostly listen on one of my Amazon smart speakers or on my PC, I longer care much about the delivery more the content.

After all I first heard a lot of the music I listen to on a Fidelity Westminster and I was happy then.

Cheers

Mike T

OK, I guess I was generalizing. It goes far beyond SME prices though. For some reason I have ended up on the mailing list for https://www.absolutesounds.com/ . Every now and again they send me an e-catalogue and price list.

Rack to put your gear on? £15k. Air Force One turntable and arm - £130k. Throw in a Koetsu cartridge for £10k.

That is before you buy amplifiers, streamers, CD player and speakers.

You can easily get to half a million without trying hard.

Now if I won the Euromillions (which would be difficult because I don't buy tickets) I might be tempted to at least audition this sort of stuff.

But a friend of a friend has a stupidly expensive system that my friend says sounds like expensive hi-fi. He describes mine as playing music.

[GrimJosef]

Originally Posted by knobtwiddler

... It would be fascinating to know if the rise of Social Media has generated an uptick in the sales of far-out audio accessories ...

I'm afraid any uptick associated with sales reinforcement in social media 'echo chambers' will be negligible compared with the downtick that's come to the audio industry as a whole as younger people have, if they listen to music at all, taken to putting it on in the background while they play on Facebook/Instagram/Snapchat/Twitter etc etc.

In the old days progress up the hifi ladder was rewarded with sound quality improvement that most people, if they tried, could hear, at least to begin with (FM better than AM, stereo better than mono, magnetic cartridges better than crystal ones, expensive speakers better than cheap ones). These days you can buy bit-perfect digital music and a competent solid-state DAC and amp in a tiny box for next to nothing. Spending more on speakers still helps, but there are some very decent performers within reach of a student's budget. There's much less practical incentive to take hifi up as a hobby, in the first world at least, than there used to be. So it's become a niche business. The 'vinyl revival' of the last few years is perhaps the only exception to this.

Cheers,

GJ

[Radio Wrangler]

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

But a friend of a friend has a stupidly expensive system that my friend says sounds like expensive hi-fi. He describes mine as playing music.

In view of today's date; If there was a quote of the year award, I'd vote for this one.

There's a guy who really knows where his towel is.

David

[Cobaltblue]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

In view of today's date; If there was a quote of the year award, I'd vote for this one.

There's a guy who really knows where his towel is.

David

Hitch hikers guide to the Galaxy ?


Cheers


Mike T