The Audiophoolery Thread.

[Radio Wrangler]

Well, there are the usual DIN connectors, and then there are even worse DIN connectors...

David

[Craig Sawyers]

Originally Posted by Hartley118

Consumer grade audio connectors, whether phono, DIN or jack, are often of such poor quality that I suspect the mere act of unmating and remaking the connection can result in an audible improvement.

Martin

I think it is possibly the case that perceived differences when using a new cable is more to do with the connectors being new and clean.

I use Neutrik XLR's, which are fully specified, and have >1000 mate/demate cycle life for the regular connectors or >5000 for the ruggedised outdoor ones.

You'll not find that sort of information about RCA or DIN connectors. But bog standard DIN connectors are the worst of the worst, designed when there was an attempt by the Germans to standardise audio in the 1960s and 1970's. There was a whole raft of them, now withdrawn. Wikipedia has a section about these awful things https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector .

They do live on though. The standard connector on the bottom of high grade tone arms is a 5 pin 270 degree DIN connector. None of this particular type of connector is cheap. SME have used this type since introduction of the type V back in 1986, and it has since been adopted as the standard across most of the tone arm industry.

For example https://www.analogueseduction.net/tonearm-connectors-arm-upgrades/page/1/

Craig

[Synchrodyne]

In the 1970s (or maybe it was early 1980s) one of the hi-fi magazines (possibly “Hi-Fi for Pleasure”) ran an article on audio connectors, including their performance in terms of self-cleaning during insertion and removal. I recall that one outcome was that the 5-pin DIN plug and socket outperformed the RCA/phono type, which I think the article writer found rather surprising.

I am not sure if I still have that magazine – the cover had a picture of an “umbrella” of many cables with terminated in various plugs and sockets. (It was originally in my keeper stock, but that is not accessible right now, and anyway, following the law of ever-increasing entropy, that stock self-depleted somewhat during the course of quite a few moves.)


Cheers,

[joebog1]

In Australia early hi-fi stuff used RF connectors that look similar to RCA's. They were some sort of zinc plated material, probably steel but possible brass or phosphor bronze. They were origionally used on TV turret tuners, but found their way into early hifi stuff. They were just OK when new but soon developed a white oxide ( read corrosion) that was a near perfect insulator. they are subtly smaller than an RCA and it was common to find RCA's jammed into the sockets. BUT, what was worse was when a lead was made up using the male plugs, they were spaced a few thou away from the centre female receptical.

A bit more useless information for your perousal

Joe

[Craig Sawyers]

NAIM were a company that used DIN connectors for many years, and only relatively recently moved to phono.

And older Mark Levinson gear used, rather quirkily, Camac (actually Lemo series 00) connectors. Eventually they had to offer Camac/RCA adaptors so owners could use other cables that Levinson's own ones.

Back in 1976 I spent a Summer at CERN, and as well as working there I designed and built a preamp, using discrete op-amps and bootstrapped emitter followers. Used the CERN PCB manufacturing facility after hand taping the 2x masters. The input/output and external power supply input were 3 pin full size LEMO. I still have it - really must power it up again and do some measurements.

Craig

[joebog1]

Sumazing isnt it?

The connectors I was referring ti in post 2424 are in fact Belling Lee!!
SHOULD any of you find some in your equipment, SHOOT them!!!

When I was a kid I had a very learned gentleman teach me B/W TV repairs. One of my first jobs was to drill out the little rivets used to hold them into the chassis, cut the mating plug off, then solder the co-ax directly into the turret tuner. TV worked perfectly thereafter. WELL untll the 1 Uf paper cap that fed the vertical scan coils on the yoke.

Wow !!! thats like nearly 60 years ago

Joe

The Belling Lee co-ax connector was the only reasonably sized co-ax job in the UK in the past (1950's I guess) no wonder it was used for audio. Fine for mono, stereo adds the hum loop complication, that is where the DIN wins out. With silver plated pins and sockets it works well. One of the best things was a tape deck, only one lead for record and replay so simple.

[Heatercathodeshort]

Originally Posted by Buzby123

BBC Archive 1959

https://fb.watch/4QufdKuV2Y/

Lovely! If I'm not mistaken the amp in the bin belongs to a Beau Decca complete with PX4's! John.

[Restoration73]

There are a range of locking DIN connectors where the body material is a diecast metal
and this type is not a problem. The locking includes lock ring and threaded ring versions.

The 3 pole version of the Belling Lee connector "Screenector" was effective but does not
seem to have been popular.

[emeritus]

The bodies of the original genuine Belling-Lee co-ax plugs were plated brass. I still have a couple of BL originals, and a pack of brass-bodied plugs bought from Screwfix a decade ago. An early 1950's BL catalogue shows plugs with an external annular groove that co-operated with a sprung detent pip in the socket to help prevent the plug falling out. I have never seen one in the flesh, but some were shown in a photo in a forum post a few years ago.

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

NAIM were a company that used DIN connectors for many years, and only relatively recently moved to phono.

And older Mark Levinson gear used, rather quirkily, Camac (actually Lemo series 00) connectors. Eventually they had to offer Camac/RCA adaptors so owners could use other cables that Levinson's own ones.

Back in 1976 I spent a Summer at CERN, and as well as working there I designed and built a preamp, using discrete op-amps and bootstrapped emitter followers. Used the CERN PCB manufacturing facility after hand taping the 2x masters. The input/output and external power supply input were 3 pin full size LEMO. I still have it - really must power it up again and do some measurements.

Craig

I too played around a lot with CAMAC crates in the very-early-80s and ended up using LEMOs borrowed from Rutherford/Daresbury Labs for quite a number of my 'private' RF projects. LEMOs are still one of my favourite connectors.

As noted upthread, there are DIN-connectors and DIN-connectors... the cheap-and-nasty ones with a longitudinally-split metal plug-shell held together by a pushed-over plastic cover with a 'concertina' where the cable emerges are really horrid: they were horrid when used at audio and just as horrid when used as connectors on home-computer gear.
There are some *good* DIN-connectors though: the type with a cast body and a clamp-ring to stop inadvertent plug/socket separation are my favourite. Used on PYE mobile-radios as microphone-connectors from the late-1960s [starting with the Pye Westminster] they were really rather good.

I'm surprised nobody has latched-onto the computer-style ITT_Cannon "D"-connectors for audio; the good ones come with diecast aluminium shells/covers and a locking-spring to avoid inadvertent disconnection. As well as the common 9/15/25-pin versions the same shells can also be fitted with screened coaxial plugs/sockets: for example the DB13W3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB13W3

and similar smaller ones were used for interconnection between modules in the likes of the 1970s Plessey PRC320 military radio [where they handled up to 30 Watts of RF at 30MHz without difficulty].

[jamesperrett]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

I'm surprised nobody has latched-onto the computer-style ITT_Cannon "D"-connectors for audio; the good ones come with diecast aluminium shells/covers and a locking-spring to avoid inadvertent disconnection.

They're actually fairly common in professional audio where you need to connect many channels. The modern configuration was introduced by Tascam in the 1990's for use with their DA-88 8 track recorders. Other manufacturers started using the same standard and it is now an AES standard - AES59 as described at

https://www.soundonsound.com/glossary/aes59

[jamesperrett]

Originally Posted by Synchrodyne

In the 1970s (or maybe it was early 1980s) one of the hi-fi magazines (possibly “Hi-Fi for Pleasure”) ran an article on audio connectors, including their performance in terms of self-cleaning during insertion and removal. I recall that one outcome was that the 5-pin DIN plug and socket outperformed the RCA/phono type, which I think the article writer found rather surprising.

I remember that article - which I was quite pleased to read because much of the gear that I owned at the time used DIN connectors. I'm fairly sure that I still have it but it would take a bit of digging out.

[Radio Wrangler]

This thread seems to have drifted onto quite non-phoolish things, almost sensible in fact.

David

[Restoration73]

Despite using gold plated phono plugs, one highly expensive audio interconnect used two core overall screened (balanced) mic cable. Red was inner, white outer, and the screen left completely unconnected i.e. floating.

[Radio Wrangler]

Now that really is the clueless leading the clueless.

Those cables would need special gear having the necessary extra phono sockets. An attempt to lock users into one brand?

David

[Craig Sawyers]

OK - you want DIN and RCA plugs? Here you go https://www.futureshop.co.uk/brands-category/furutech/furutech-rca-plugs

Or a 0.6 metre Nordost RCA cable pair for £20k https://www.futureshop.co.uk/nordost-odin-2-audio-interconnect-rca-pair

Or a bog standard 5 pin DIN cable for £890 https://www.futureshop.co.uk/tellurium-q-black-diamond-5-pin-din-to-5-pin-din

Back on topic.

Craig

[Dickie]

Reference the 5-pin DIN to DIN,
"Please note that these interconnects are directional and for the best sound, connect them in the direction of the arrow on the cable."

If you have both record and replay signals from a tapedeck connected, which way round does it go?


edit: I've just noticed the Usage Guide doesn't include tapedecks.

[Malcolm G6ANZ]

The din connector is supposed to be directional. So which way do I connect it if I'm using to as a record/replay cable from my tape recorder or other record replay device. Or don't audiophools use such things.
Beaten to it by Dickie

[mark2collection]

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

Or a bog standard 5 pin DIN cable for £890 https://www.futureshop.co.uk/tellurium-q-black-diamond-5-pin-din-to-5-pin-din

It's not just mine and Craig's vivid imagination is it, they are just bog standard 5-pin din leads with adhesive lined heatshrink (admittedly one sleeve has a company logo on it) and the expensive 'wire' hidden beneath, no sorry, protected by, standard cotton/woven braid?

Still, at least there's a colourful chart further down the page indicating where you are in terms of bragging rights and any phool needs to know how close to the top they are, so it's not all bad.

I was once given an offcut of Ultra Electronics MM15/50 super-screened cable and can say my workshop 'mid-fi' system no longer makes odd noises when I clumsily leave a mobile phono next to the system. I'm not worried about the impedance mismatch and neither it seems, is the system.

A good few years back I bought some Cambridge Audio interconnects, red was indeed signal, white, ground, and only one end of the screen was connected ... these have since been repurposed with XLR connectors and used on my large (pro) sound system in 'balanced' mode.

This has made a worthwhile improvement in terms of signal vs noise vs the previous mode of unbalanced and using super cheap BTech phono leads/connectors to boot(!) which I think cost £1.75 for 4, back in 1991.

Mark