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General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc. |
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1st Feb 2019, 6:53 pm | #1 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,953
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TalkSport echoes.
Some people complain here about sibilance on radio-4 longwave, but why has nobody mentioned the horrible echoes on TalkSport 693/909KHz?
I live where the coverage-areas of two transmitters overlap. The problem is not carrier-desynchronisation-fading between transmitters (I know what that sounds like from my days with wide-area-coverage AM VHF police/fire/civil-defence rnetworks atound 100MHz) - rather it sounds much more like one transmitter's audio feed has a delay of 100 milliseconds or more compared with the other. The echo makes TalkSport all-but-unlistenable-to. What's the best path through which to report this? |
1st Feb 2019, 7:02 pm | #2 |
Hexode
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cambridge, Cambs. UK.
Posts: 469
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Re: TalkSport echoes.
Been reported may times before and in short they just don't care about their AM output now they are on DAB, Freeview and Online.
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1st Feb 2019, 7:10 pm | #3 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,953
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Re: TalkSport echoes.
Which is a shame: for me the only really-listenable daytime content on MW/LW is TalkSport.
Hmmmm... in the 1970s I used to participate in top-band 'foxhunts' - I've still got the radio [four OC170s, a TAD100 IC and a single NKT404 as the audio-output stage] somewhere in the attic; I wonder if it still works and could be resurrected to let me null-out one transmitter? |
1st Feb 2019, 7:17 pm | #4 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
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Re: TalkSport echoes.
Five Live is on 909/693, the echo is because of simultaneous transmission from far apart transmitters getting various feed methods.
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1st Feb 2019, 7:37 pm | #5 |
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 27,788
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Re: TalkSport echoes.
Yes, if you live in an overlapping area all you can do is null out one of the transmitters. 1053/1089 was always an awful transmitter network even when R1 used it, and there's no attempt to keep the transmitters synchronised now.
909/693 R5 is a bit better but still pretty grim in places. |
1st Feb 2019, 7:43 pm | #6 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,953
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Re: TalkSport echoes.
The problem's not transmitter desynchronisation, it's the audio-delay between the transmitters that makes it sound like the program is being delivered from inside a tube-station.
I'm going to do some playing-around with directional antennas and a version of the "Jones" phasing-scheme (more usually seen used in WWII aircraft to reduce interference from spark-ignition engines) to see what's possible. |
1st Feb 2019, 7:46 pm | #7 |
Octode
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Reading/Fakenham, UK.
Posts: 1,320
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Re: TalkSport echoes.
Yes, it also happens on Virgin - and you can hear different adds in the commercial breaks!
In the good old days the BBC ensured that not only were synced networks' carrier frequencies within 0.05 Hz, but that the modulation was exactly in sync too. (I remember this from my days at BBC Crowsley Park, but maybe some transmitter engineers could add some more.) |
1st Feb 2019, 7:46 pm | #8 |
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 27,788
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Re: TalkSport echoes.
Because transmitter synchronisation has been abandoned they don't see any need to synchronise the audio feeds either. I think the TalkSport feeds come from satellite.
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1st Feb 2019, 8:06 pm | #9 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Milton Keynes, Bucks. UK.
Posts: 2,552
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Re: TalkSport echoes.
Some times, just for fun, I put 2 identical radios about 6 foot apart and tune into Radio 5, one tuned to 909 and the other to 693 and it produces a great 'empty hall' effect.
I'm not sure but I'm receiving from Sandy Heath & Oxford ?
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2nd Feb 2019, 1:17 am | #10 |
Hexode
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cambridge, Cambs. UK.
Posts: 469
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Re: TalkSport echoes.
Camtechman you will be receiving 909khz from the Brookmans park transmitter and maybe 693 from Postwick near Norwich.
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2nd Feb 2019, 11:58 am | #11 |
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 27,788
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Re: TalkSport echoes.
693 will be from Droitwich. There are no MW transmitters at Oxford apart from a tiny relay for Absolute.
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2nd Feb 2019, 12:27 pm | #12 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Milton Keynes, Bucks. UK.
Posts: 2,552
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Re: TalkSport echoes.
Many thanks.
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11th Feb 2019, 9:45 pm | #13 | ||
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 134
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Re: TalkSport echoes.
Quote:
I don't think this has ever occured, but there is a first time for eveything! Quote:
Some time ago, the 1089kHz channel used to have a pronounced beat of around 1Hz at night for a length period. This is no longer apparent, - the offending transmitter (possibly was Westerglen) must have been put precisely back on 1089 (using GPS reference??), now if only the echoing (still happening on both 1053 and 1089) could be sorted out! Last edited by colourking; 11th Feb 2019 at 9:53 pm. |
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11th Feb 2019, 10:42 pm | #14 |
Heptode
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 671
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Re: TalkSport echoes.
The distribution of Talksport is IP based at a fairly low bitrate, so there are varying delays at each site dependent on the routing. It is not something that can be fixed unfortunately. Rotating you radio to null out interference is the only realistic option to cure it sadly.
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16th Feb 2019, 8:31 am | #15 | |
Octode
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Reading/Fakenham, UK.
Posts: 1,320
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Re: TalkSport echoes.
Quote:
It's obviously just not worth anyone's bother these days. |
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4th Mar 2019, 4:32 pm | #16 | |
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 134
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Re: TalkSport echoes.
Quote:
Echoing in the middle of the day now audible where I am on 1089, which hadn't been the case recently!, so its an echo between Redruth and Washford where I am as I have a mixture of signals from both on 1089 |
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4th Mar 2019, 7:26 pm | #17 |
Octode
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Oxfordshire/Bucks borders, UK.
Posts: 1,604
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Re: TalkSport echoes.
I remember when that frequency was Talk Radio UK, the good old days
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4th Mar 2019, 7:37 pm | #18 |
Octode
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Reading/Fakenham, UK.
Posts: 1,320
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Re: TalkSport echoes.
And before that Radio One!
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29th Mar 2019, 10:39 am | #19 | |
Pentode
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 134
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Re: TalkSport echoes.
Quote:
Talksport do not do that anymore as far as I can tell. But they do still have separate traffic/travel news for some areas, I can sometimes easily hear the separate traffic/travel for Scotland on 1089 helped by rotating the radio early in these mornings with Skywaves still present. (listeners possibly hearing another travel news in the background is only a minor issue compared to the constant echoing issues that were occuring!) Last edited by colourking; 29th Mar 2019 at 11:01 am. |
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29th Mar 2019, 12:27 pm | #20 | |
Nonode
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Warsaw, Poland and Cambridge, UK
Posts: 2,669
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Re: TalkSport echoes.
Quote:
We can only assume that they just don't think it's important enough to spend any money on. Chris
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