Dialling out problems on 332 phone - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

alirgray · 13th Nov 2010, 12:35 pm

Hi All. New to this forum, & old phones in general.... so please bear with me! We've always wanted a old style phone, so picked one up last weekend from a junk shop for a reasonable price. It was already "converted" with a BT plug, so got home & tested it and seemed OKish. Renewed the plug & rewired it as the old line was partially cut through. Added a 3.3K resistor across T11 & 12 as that wasn't fitted & re fitted the straps as per the wiring diags I've found on the net for this phone (AEP Mk1). Spent a few hours cleaning her up & she looks & sounds great!!

Receives incoming calls fine, but outgoing are very unreliable. Sometimes local numbers can be dialled OK, but to test to a mobile is impossible - I get the "This number is unrecognisable, please try again......" It is fitted with a 24C dial, that returns nice & smoothly doing the "One thousand & one" trick. I've cleaned the contacts & governor with contact cleaner, but I guess the problem lies in the accuracy of the dial sending the right number of pulses. I would like to change the dial for a chrome one - to look nicer, so might overcome the problem just by doing that, but I'd like to know how to cure it using the dial I've got. I am fairly technically minded, but no telecom bod with test gear, so nice, simple answers please!! FYI - I've got Virgin broadband with the required ADSL filters & have tried with & without filters & in the master socket & the problem still exists. Thank you in anticipation for any help given. Regards, Don.

alirgray · 14th Nov 2010, 5:58 pm

Ok Chaps. I'll be taking delivery of a new - to me(!) - dial for the phone that's been "reconditioned & serviced", so hopefully it'll sort the problem mentioned above out. BUT... I'd like confirmation please of the correct wiring to the screw terminals on the dial. I know I could follow what's already there, but I don't know if that's absolutely correct! Any chance you could point me in the direction of a diagram or photo please, or enlighten me as to what goes where when viewing the dial from the rear. I notice there is no numbering to the terminals... Ta very much. Don.

Darren-UK · 14th Nov 2010, 7:00 pm

Probably a bit late now but it sounds like the existing dial is returning too fast. If it's returning in time to 'one thousand and one' then it is, it should return in time to 'one thousand one hundred and ten'. But a 24C dial? That's a new one on me for this instrument.

See the links from this page for wiring/conversion.

alirgray · 15th Nov 2010, 11:02 am

Hi Darren. Thanks for the reply. Yep, its a 24C - (made in Liverpool) - brass dial thats had the front face polished up. Looks Ok. But, what dial should it have then?? (A chrome faced one I hope!) It definately returned to stop at "One thousand & one", so sounds as if it is running too fast. To adjust I assume the governor arms are tweeked outwards slightly until the desired speed is reached whilst chanting "One thousand, one hundred & ten!". Any more tips or info greatly recieved. Thanks. I'll let you know how I get on!

alirgray · 17th Nov 2010, 1:30 pm

Hi All. I tried adjusting the speed of the 24C dial fitted to the phone, but it still didn't want to connect. Anyway.... I've just got the new dial through this morning, which has a much nicer action. Will have a go at fitting it tonight, but just want to confirm the correct wiring to terminals. Downloaded a wiring diag from a website that says viewing the dial with terminals up most it goes from L to R: Blue, Grey, Brown, pink, orange. Is this correct for this dial please - as per my photo attached? I just want to be sure as I don't want to screw anything up - not being an expert in such matters!

Thanks for any help given. Regards, Don.

Darren-UK · 17th Nov 2010, 4:42 pm

Hi Don,

I'm not sure if you've got the brown and pink transposed but one of our telephone experts will no doubt put you right on that one.

Yes, a chrome fingerplate was usual for the GPO 300 series (black ones do lurk though). The 24C was an ATM offering, so it could've been fitted to your 'phone post-manufacture or the whole instrument could be from ATM.

The dial you've illustrated above doesn't look like a GPO one, difficult to see the stampings on it. Doesn't matter though, if it works, has a chrome fingerplate and the fingerstop is immediately adjacent to the '0' so it looks the part.

russell_w_b · 17th Nov 2010, 5:35 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren-UK

Hi Don,

I'm not sure if you've got the brown and pink transposed but one of our telephone experts will no doubt put you right on that one.

It's blue, slate, brown, pink and orange: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 respectively. Pink and orange are the dial pulse contacts, but as a test, connect a multimeter across them and check that you get make-break-make-break... when you rotate the dial and release.

Blue and slate (or gray) are 'dial-off-normal' contacts and should read O/C when the dial is at rest; S/C when the dial is rotated.

Brown and pink are the other 'dial-off-normal' contacts, and should read as blue and slate.

Note that pink (4) is both a pulse connection and a dial-off-normal connection!

1,2,3,4,5 on the dial should go to 1,2,3,4,5 on the terminal strip inside the telephone. The option is given to short out terminals 4 and 5 for central battery working (no dial system) so that the line current normally sent to the microphone through the pulse contacts will make the loop.

russell_w_b · 17th Nov 2010, 8:34 pm

Don,

Just opened up my N1071 (wall-mounted Ericsson variant of 332) and can confirm that your wiring colour scheme in post #5 is correct.

alirgray · 17th Nov 2010, 10:32 pm

Hi Russell

Thanks very much for the info. Wired her up and tested - all OK now & dialling out fine!!

Brilliant. The numbers stamped on the casing of the new dial are: 12 C56/2. So a type 12 dial? I was puzzled about the wiring config. because the old dial was wired the other way round to the description given.... See attachment for comparisons. Anyway, all sorted now. Thanks chaps! Just got to work out how to service the old one just in case I need it. What is there to it, apart from cleaning, selectively lubricating & setting the speed by the governor??

russell_w_b · 17th Nov 2010, 10:51 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by alirgray

'...What is there to it, apart from cleaning, selectively lubricating & setting the speed by the governor??'

Pleased you're sorted!

Now... Study and inwardly digest this here page.

alirgray · 18th Nov 2010, 9:52 am

Blimey..... A bit of light reading then.......! The same test / service proceedure goes for the type 24C as well I guess then.

Thanks Russell

bobsterkent · 18th Nov 2010, 1:01 pm

As an apprentice I was taught the saying "Bill Says Bu***er the Post Office" to remember the way around for the wires on a dial. so its Blue, slate (Grey), Brown Pink Orange. one of those handy sayings!

alirgray · 22nd Nov 2010, 10:14 am

Hi All. Just like to say the phone is now working just as it should.....

Still got to service the old dial though..... I'll get around to it eventually! On renovating the old bakelite we discovered that Autoglym Bumper care works very well. After a thorough cleaning to remove the filth, just a tiny smear of it on a cloth really brings the case finish back. Excellent! Cheers, All.

JCM3000 · 23rd Nov 2010, 3:33 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren-UK

Hi Don,
The 24C was an ATM offering, so it could've been fitted to your 'phone post-manufacture or the whole instrument could be from ATM.

I think I read that AEP was a subsidiary or was part-owned by ATM so I suppose it would make sense for the 'phone to have a 24C dial. In this case it looks like the 24C is probably the genuine article!

(A nice chrome dial does look better though!)

[Edit: Can we have a photo of the finished 'phone please Don?]

alirgray · 23rd Nov 2010, 7:28 pm

Here you go JCM3000 - here's a couple of pics of the finished phone! My wife downloaded a label for the dial - from this site - & a lovely graphics girl at work popped our number on it in the appropriate font - (hence the obscuring - ex directory). I guess I'm stating the obvious, but it's quite noticeable when you call our number now, that as the person picks it up, you can distinctly hear the dingle of the bells as they die away!

Ha Ha!

Darren-UK · 23rd Nov 2010, 7:46 pm

Should you wish to get rid that curly cord for something more in keeping, this lot do repro braided cords (no connection to myself). Nothing wrong with the curly cord though, if you're happy to retain it.

mawdsjeff · 24th Nov 2010, 9:27 am

Hi Don, it may be the make-break ratio combined with being too fast or too slow! It shuld take 1 second to return to the stop. The pulsing contact has to break for two thirds of the time and make for one third. That dial is an ATM dial not a GPO one, and if you can, swap it for a no. 10 or no.12. That phone is Portuguese by the way. Geoff

13th Nov 2010, 12:35 pm	#1
alirgray Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kent Posts: 8	Dialling out problems on 332 phone Hi All. New to this forum, & old phones in general.... so please bear with me! We've always wanted a old style phone, so picked one up last weekend from a junk shop for a reasonable price. It was already "converted" with a BT plug, so got home & tested it and seemed OKish. Renewed the plug & rewired it as the old line was partially cut through. Added a 3.3K resistor across T11 & 12 as that wasn't fitted & re fitted the straps as per the wiring diags I've found on the net for this phone (AEP Mk1). Spent a few hours cleaning her up & she looks & sounds great!! Receives incoming calls fine, but outgoing are very unreliable. Sometimes local numbers can be dialled OK, but to test to a mobile is impossible - I get the "This number is unrecognisable, please try again......" It is fitted with a 24C dial, that returns nice & smoothly doing the "One thousand & one" trick. I've cleaned the contacts & governor with contact cleaner, but I guess the problem lies in the accuracy of the dial sending the right number of pulses. I would like to change the dial for a chrome one - to look nicer, so might overcome the problem just by doing that, but I'd like to know how to cure it using the dial I've got. I am fairly technically minded, but no telecom bod with test gear, so nice, simple answers please!! FYI - I've got Virgin broadband with the required ADSL filters & have tried with & without filters & in the master socket & the problem still exists. Thank you in anticipation for any help given. Regards, Don.

14th Nov 2010, 5:58 pm	#2
alirgray Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kent Posts: 8	Re: Dialling out problems on 332 phone Ok Chaps. I'll be taking delivery of a new - to me(!) - dial for the phone that's been "reconditioned & serviced", so hopefully it'll sort the problem mentioned above out. BUT... I'd like confirmation please of the correct wiring to the screw terminals on the dial. I know I could follow what's already there, but I don't know if that's absolutely correct! Any chance you could point me in the direction of a diagram or photo please, or enlighten me as to what goes where when viewing the dial from the rear. I notice there is no numbering to the terminals... Ta very much. Don.

14th Nov 2010, 7:00 pm	#3
Darren-UK Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 4,061	Re: Dialling out problems on 332 phone Probably a bit late now but it sounds like the existing dial is returning too fast. If it's returning in time to 'one thousand and one' then it is, it should return in time to 'one thousand one hundred and ten'. But a 24C dial? That's a new one on me for this instrument. See the links from this page for wiring/conversion.

15th Nov 2010, 11:02 am	#4
alirgray Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kent Posts: 8	Re: Dialling out problems on 332 phone Hi Darren. Thanks for the reply. Yep, its a 24C - (made in Liverpool) - brass dial thats had the front face polished up. Looks Ok. But, what dial should it have then?? (A chrome faced one I hope!) It definately returned to stop at "One thousand & one", so sounds as if it is running too fast. To adjust I assume the governor arms are tweeked outwards slightly until the desired speed is reached whilst chanting "One thousand, one hundred & ten!". Any more tips or info greatly recieved. Thanks. I'll let you know how I get on!

17th Nov 2010, 4:42 pm	#6
Darren-UK Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 4,061	Re: Dialling out problems on 332 phone Hi Don, I'm not sure if you've got the brown and pink transposed but one of our telephone experts will no doubt put you right on that one. Yes, a chrome fingerplate was usual for the GPO 300 series (black ones do lurk though). The 24C was an ATM offering, so it could've been fitted to your 'phone post-manufacture or the whole instrument could be from ATM. The dial you've illustrated above doesn't look like a GPO one, difficult to see the stampings on it. Doesn't matter though, if it works, has a chrome fingerplate and the fingerstop is immediately adjacent to the '0' so it looks the part.

17th Nov 2010, 1:30 pm	#5
alirgray Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kent Posts: 8	Re: Dialling out problems on 332 phone Hi All. I tried adjusting the speed of the 24C dial fitted to the phone, but it still didn't want to connect. Anyway.... I've just got the new dial through this morning, which has a much nicer action. Will have a go at fitting it tonight, but just want to confirm the correct wiring to terminals. Downloaded a wiring diag from a website that says viewing the dial with terminals up most it goes from L to R: Blue, Grey, Brown, pink, orange. Is this correct for this dial please - as per my photo attached? I just want to be sure as I don't want to screw anything up - not being an expert in such matters! Thanks for any help given. Regards, Don. Attached Thumbnails

17th Nov 2010, 8:34 pm	#8
russell_w_b Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK. Posts: 3,687	Re: Dialling out problems on 332 phone Don, Just opened up my N1071 (wall-mounted Ericsson variant of 332) and can confirm that your wiring colour scheme in post #5 is correct. __________________ Regds, Russell W. B. G4YLI.

17th Nov 2010, 10:32 pm	#9
alirgray Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kent Posts: 8	Re: Dialling out problems on 332 phone Hi Russell Thanks very much for the info. Wired her up and tested - all OK now & dialling out fine!! Brilliant. The numbers stamped on the casing of the new dial are: 12 C56/2. So a type 12 dial? I was puzzled about the wiring config. because the old dial was wired the other way round to the description given.... See attachment for comparisons. Anyway, all sorted now. Thanks chaps! Just got to work out how to service the old one just in case I need it. What is there to it, apart from cleaning, selectively lubricating & setting the speed by the governor?? Attached Thumbnails

18th Nov 2010, 9:52 am	#11
alirgray Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kent Posts: 8	Re: Dialling out problems on 332 phone Blimey..... A bit of light reading then.......! The same test / service proceedure goes for the type 24C as well I guess then. Thanks Russell

18th Nov 2010, 1:01 pm	#12
bobsterkent Hexode Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Medway towns, Kent, UK. Posts: 271	Re: Dialling out problems on 332 phone As an apprentice I was taught the saying "Bill Says Bu***er the Post Office" to remember the way around for the wires on a dial. so its Blue, slate (Grey), Brown Pink Orange. one of those handy sayings! __________________ "Oh yes I love television, all those wiggly lines"!

22nd Nov 2010, 10:14 am	#13
alirgray Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kent Posts: 8	Re: Dialling out problems on 332 phone Hi All. Just like to say the phone is now working just as it should..... Still got to service the old dial though..... I'll get around to it eventually! On renovating the old bakelite we discovered that Autoglym Bumper care works very well. After a thorough cleaning to remove the filth, just a tiny smear of it on a cloth really brings the case finish back. Excellent! Cheers, All.

23rd Nov 2010, 7:28 pm	#15
alirgray Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kent Posts: 8	Re: Dialling out problems on 332 phone Here you go JCM3000 - here's a couple of pics of the finished phone! My wife downloaded a label for the dial - from this site - & a lovely graphics girl at work popped our number on it in the appropriate font - (hence the obscuring - ex directory). I guess I'm stating the obvious, but it's quite noticeable when you call our number now, that as the person picks it up, you can distinctly hear the dingle of the bells as they die away! Ha Ha! Attached Thumbnails

23rd Nov 2010, 7:46 pm	#16
Darren-UK Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 4,061	Re: Dialling out problems on 332 phone Should you wish to get rid that curly cord for something more in keeping, this lot do repro braided cords (no connection to myself). Nothing wrong with the curly cord though, if you're happy to retain it.

24th Nov 2010, 9:27 am	#17
mawdsjeff Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Waterlooville, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 10	Re: Dialling out problems on 332 phone Hi Don, it may be the make-break ratio combined with being too fast or too slow! It shuld take 1 second to return to the stop. The pulsing contact has to break for two thirds of the time and make for one third. That dial is an ATM dial not a GPO one, and if you can, swap it for a no. 10 or no.12. That phone is Portuguese by the way. Geoff