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Hints, Tips and Solutions (Do NOT post requests for help here) If you have any useful general hints and tips for vintage technology repair and restoration, please share them here. PLEASE DO NOT POST REQUESTS FOR HELP HERE!

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Old 19th Jan 2007, 10:57 pm   #1
Sean Williams
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Default The importance of taking clear notes

Hi All,

Just a note to mention the importance of taking good clear notes and diagrams when removing components for refitting at a later date.

Example........

I have been restoring a TV22 for a while, and prior to it's chassis wash I stripped all the wound components off the chassis - I thought I had documented the connections correctly.....

However, when I had refitted the components I had several faults - no raster, brightness control not working.....

So, Howler central - I had managed to connect the frame output transformer incorrectly, and to compound this fault, I managed to completely forget to reconnect HT to one part of the circuit.....

So, Be warned!

Notes and Photographs are an absolute must!

Cheers
Sean
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Old 19th Jan 2007, 11:16 pm   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Williams View Post
Hi All,
Just a note to mention the importance of taking good clear notes and diagrams when removing components for refitting at a later date.
. . . . . .
Notes and Photographs are an absolute must!
Cheers
Sean
Quite; couldn't agree more.

That way (notes, photos, drawings, etc.) you can build up your own workshop manual. Especially relevant if you've incorporated some non-standard modification. Don't say to yourself "Yeah, yeah - I'll remember what that is for", etc. You won't. Years later, you'll look at it, recognise your own handiwork, and say "why did I do that?"

Al / Skywave.
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Old 20th Jan 2007, 1:48 pm   #3
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Default Re: The importance of taking clear notes

Apart from taking notes, I depend on taking copious digital photos from every angle as the set comes apart. On reassembly, this has proved essential time and again.

One non-radio example: recently I had to repair my grandfather clock.
I had no previous experience of clock repair whatsoever and the poor thing ended up as a mass of cog wheels on the bench. Without the photos I wouldn't have had a hope of ever putting it together again; but instead I'm happy to report it's now ticking away solidly and keeping excellent time.

Steve
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Old 20th Jan 2007, 3:41 pm   #4
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Default Re: The importance of taking clear notes

Another one in agreement with the point made! I have incredibly poor memory, a side effect of the medication that I must take in order to function satisfactorily in other ways. It could be something as simple as remembering how a chassis fastens into its cabinet after a repair, something not always apparent in a workshop manual or Trader service sheet, that would stump me if I didn't take pictures.

I have a "real" camera, but for documenting the correct assembly procedure for any engineering-related task, be it radio, car, household or otherwise, the 2 Megapixel camera on my telephone gives excellent close-up results and I invariably open a fresh folder in 'documents' on the pc, then name it for the device under scrutiny, finally all pictures are uploaded, text added with photoshop and a CD burnt that will read like a "Haynes" car manual, but that doesn't leave any vital bits to chance!

Steve, regarding your clock repair, my Father is one of those irritatingly talented people who can look at a pile of round, brass components on a bench and, within minutes, have them assembled into something that tells the time.
Clocks are very much not my particular strength, so the more pictures, the better on those rare occasions I have to delve into such a thing.

Sounds long winded, and is, but I'm never left with spare bits after a job!
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Old 20th Jan 2007, 3:47 pm   #5
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Default Re: The importance of taking clear notes

I usually have loads of screws etc left over after restorations and have no idea where they should go! I normally do diagrams if I disconnect anything, I have just started on an early 50's Etronic and I did diagrams for the O/P tx and the mains on/off/volume switch. Josh.
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Old 20th Jan 2007, 4:43 pm   #6
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Default Re: The importance of taking clear notes

Notes? What are notes??

Seriously though, Digital Photogtaphy is a good way of quickly getting a diagram of where things should go!

Cheers,

Steve P
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Old 20th Jan 2007, 4:51 pm   #7
Mike Phelan
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Default Re: The importance of taking clear notes

I think that digital cameras are one of the most useful tools that you can own, for dismantling and reassembling anything.

I do it all the time with radios, and even occasionally with clocks (!) although I have been working on both of those since the 1960s.
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Old 20th Jan 2007, 4:57 pm   #8
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Default Re: The importance of taking clear notes

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Originally Posted by Mike Phelan View Post
I think that digital cameras are one of the most useful tools that you can own, for dismantling and reassembling anything.
Totally agree - radios, VCRs, phones, clocks, the car...

And I keep all the pics on my PC just in case there's a next time. They're also useful for posting here if someone asks a question and a picture answers it better than words could.

My Nikon has an excellent macro facility, but close-ups always tended to be a bit overexposed, until I stuck a bit of masking tape over the flash.

Nick.
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Old 20th Jan 2007, 5:07 pm   #9
Colin
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Default Re: The importance of taking clear notes

Don't forget the digital camera can also be used to take pictures of all those scribbled notes you make as you go along. Very useful with the component or part in the shot as well. Yes, they could be scanned at some stage in the future, but it's very quick to do on the spot and can be really useful later on.

It's surprising how clear a page of notes and diagrams can be on the screen!

Colin
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Old 20th Jan 2007, 10:04 pm   #10
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Default Re: The importance of taking clear notes

Besides keeping notes and taking photos, it is a good idea to keep all parts removed in a box with a lid or in a ziplock bag. Also work over a plain smooth floor like linoleum so anything dropped can be easily retrieved. I still have nightmares from the time I was repairing an antique pocket watch and dropped a specially shaped screw into a deep pile carpet! I did find it weeks later.
John.
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Old 21st Jan 2007, 4:38 pm   #11
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Default Re: The importance of taking clear notes

I entirely endorse the sentiments of all on this thread. The digital camera - best, one that can take a good close-up and has a high res - is a great benefit to me, along with rough sketches and notes. Despite the copious photos I take there's always one view that is partly obsured, or I inexplicably miss during the dismantling. This gives rise to the 'Elarwe' syndrome* a few months later when I return to the box of bits for a belated rebuild!
*Elarwe, as in 'Where the 'ell are we?'
Despite the limitations of my failing brain, the camera has considerable value, enhanced by the immediacy of image access - so you can be sure you've got the photo you intended!
Another useful tool, especially if you enjoy talking to yourself, is a pocket dictophone, digital or analogue type. The former is handiest for quick verbal notes, though.
-Tony
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Old 21st Jan 2007, 9:20 pm   #12
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Default Re: The importance of taking clear notes

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshWard View Post
I usually have loads of screws etc left over after restorations and have no idea where they should go!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHGibson View Post
Besides keeping notes and taking photos, it is a good idea to keep all parts removed in a box with a lid or in a ziplock bag.
I find very thin polythene food bags useful to keep groups of components together. I bought a roll of 750 from Poundland some time back. I can keep a component with its own fastening screws, nuts, clips, etc. together. It helps when different assemblies use screws with the same thread but with different head shapes or thread lengths - and I shouldn't have any left over.

Notes and sketches are also vital.

Edward
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Old 22nd Jan 2007, 4:51 pm   #13
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Default Re: The importance of taking clear notes

So i'm not the only one then ....

I think i've always taken notes on repairs that needed disassambly,
as far back as i can recall anyway. Many years ago i got a battery
operated video-tape camera, i used this on almost all my repairs
as it only needed a minute or so of hand held coverage, plus a few
spoken comments to cover a 'stage' of repairs or disassembly quite
adequately for reassembly, and as a lot of my repairs were on motor
cars, the owner could see what was involved easily without leaving
the house.

Since i've had my digital camera, i just take photos now, and they
go into a folder for that project or repair. In some ways the video
camera was more economical because after a two hour tape was full,
i would simply start going over it. Thats quite a lot of coverage
at a couple of minutes per item. But with the digital camera my
collection of various photos is now getting cumbersome, i think i
should delete the lot, or just save a few. With the video tape it
was never more than one video cassette, but now with the camera its
taking up a lot of space on my hard drive.

I use masking tape a lot for various things, i can group screws
together and label them with a short bit of masking tape, if bits of
wood break off, i can stick them back in place with a bit of tape.
To be glued and finished later, like bits of veneer and such.
HB pencil writes ok on masking tape. Little bits of broken bakelite
case or attachments like trim can easily get lost, so thats what i
do. I often repair broken bakelite bits using araldite.

Sometimes a repair may have to wait a long time for a particular bit,
thats when the brief notes and individual container of parts is
very valuable.

John
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Old 23rd Jan 2007, 5:01 pm   #14
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Default Re: The importance of taking clear notes

On some radios I have taken pictures of the undersides - in case the project took more than a few days. Digital cameras are great for this purpose, since at least on mine, I can save the pictures on a diskette and call them up as I need.

Then there's also the crude little sketches I do when I remove an IF transformer from the chassis.

Electrical tape is great for when you're opening up a radio and have to remove the tuning condenser wheel from the shaft. Wrap electrical tape around the rim to minimize disturbance to the dial cord.

Old pill vials come in handy for saving screws.

Quote:
I usually have loads of screws etc left over after restorations and have no idea where they should go!
Well, I fixed it....but there's all these parts left over!
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Old 7th Apr 2007, 5:38 pm   #15
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Default Re: The importance of taking clear notes

Me 61, apprenticed as R&TV service engineer. This was beaten into me with a500w solder iron! You only take the wavechange switch out of a fourband radiogram chassis once and fail to take proper drawings!

Old Dave.
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Old 7th Apr 2007, 5:41 pm   #16
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Default Re: The importance of taking clear notes

Oh! I forgot. Tuning dial chord drives!!!
And these computer teckies think C++ is difficult. (Philips were the worst!)

Even Older Dave.
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Old 7th Apr 2007, 5:46 pm   #17
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Default Re: The importance of taking clear notes

Absolutely right, everybody.

Notes and photographs are a form of measurement, and as I, my father, and his electronics teacher (Prof. Freddie Williams) have each incanted to our students ad nauseam: "To MEASURE is to KNOW".

(Lord Kelvin said it first, but not in such succinct words !)

It's always so obvious .... IN RETROSPECT !

Carry on, Team
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Old 7th Apr 2007, 6:31 pm   #18
Brian R Pateman
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Default Re: The importance of taking clear notes

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPCh View Post
"To MEASURE is to KNOW".
And to measure more than once then THINK about what the results mean!

Regards,
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Old 7th Apr 2007, 7:53 pm   #19
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Default Re: The importance of taking clear notes

For conciseness I didn't add what Freddie ( and the rest of us) used to add to Lord Kelvin's precept:

"... but be Bl***dy sure you know WHAT you're measuring !"

The "and how" is implicit in that.
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Old 7th Apr 2007, 8:44 pm   #20
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Default Re: The importance of taking clear notes

Also worth remembering Crow's Law.

Stated by John Crow, a reader in English at Kings College London who once said... "Do not think what you want to think until you know what you ought to know".

One of the ways we get to know what we ought to know is by taking clear notes.
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