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Old 20th May 2018, 11:27 pm   #1
Skywave
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Arrow Caversham Park, May 1945

From the BBC News - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44131106.

I've sent this in since I think it will be of interest to members and also to ask a few questions.

1. The first photo.: the lady on the left, wearing headphones and holding a pen or pencil. Would that be a CR100 which is in front of her - and ditto, her companion to her left? To the right of that first-mentioned lady operator, I'm sure that I can see a CR100.
2. Right-hand side of that same photo.: what is the strange-looking structure that seems vaguely to resemble some sort of UHF / SHF aerial? (Which it obviously isn't).
3. The second photo.: is that a radio the operator is sitting in front of? (And if so, what one?) An intercom? Or what?

Overall, I found these two photos quite fascinating.

Al.
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Old 20th May 2018, 11:37 pm   #2
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Default Re: Caversham Park, May 1945

It just looks like another 880S to me, in that photo of the operator Al
It is covered with all sorts of operational notes though
Why did you start another thread? Was it just a mistake? I make those all the time

Dave
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Old 21st May 2018, 9:25 am   #3
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Default Re: Caversham Park, May 1945

I think Al's onto something there, Dave- the nearest receiver on the LHS does appear to have something like the CR100's characteristic Bakelite "letterbox" tuning scale window, and the row of knobs lower down also seems to fit, as does the general near-cube shape. The CR100 was made in very large numbers in the early part of the war- perhaps sufficient had been displaced by the high-performance US receivers, such as the AR88, that some could be re-deployed to tasks like this. As for the "aerial" structure, my first though was "over-engineered hat-stand"....

With much war materiel, I get the distinct impression that the situation went from scarcity in the early years to almost an embarrassment of plenty as hostilities drew to a close as hugely ambitious factory plans finally came to fruition and there was consequently something of a "sorcerer's apprentice" syndrome as highly sophisticated goods kept pouring forth. Supposedly, the last few thousand B-24 Liberators made were filled with just enough fuel to get them from factory airfield to breaking yard and there are plenty of stories of sealed NOS goods being available for decades afterwards. Perhaps by May 1945, CR100s were almost crying out to be used, and would have made excellent broadcast monitors.

I'm reminded of the following thread- perhaps this "pro" embodiment of a GEC BC4172 chassis was intended as a candidate for a Caversham-type receiver. Apart from the lack of motorised tuning, it would presumably have similar performance to the similar valve line-up Marconi 880 mentioned. (I have to confess that this very solidly made set is still bagged up in the rountuit queue!),

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=122262

Colin
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Old 21st May 2018, 10:52 am   #4
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Default Re: Caversham Park, May 1945

I'm sure you are right Colin. Declaring War without thinking about resource requirements or having some sort of proper plan in place and then a typical British muddle until we got some "ducks in a row". Sounds familiar Mind you, the other side had the appearance [at least] of super efficiency from the off but it didn't seem to help in the end. We continue the tradition with our new Aircraft Carrier perhaps? Going back to the emergency commandeering [Dad's Army does a bit of that] re domestic radio sets, it was probaly the only option. As I understand it, a lot of the AR88's eg were made in Canadian and US locations and would need to cross the now dangerous Atlantic.

Even in the context of this very aware Forum and while acknowledging how very much better the comms receivers were, when we got them, the "high end" domestic sets might have been much better than we think-especially in the hands of motivated and skilled operators possibly with an amateur radio background. After all that "hobby", in itself, meant [then] using your wits to get the very best performance from your home built or very basic
equipment.

PS. OH YES! Apologies to Al. Of course I'm looking in the wrong direction when I should have just checked behind the telephone. [I've used up my emogees so I can't use a dunce symbol here!] Yes it does indeed look B28/CR100 i'sh or one of the variants Al! I've got some of those including the VLF version ie for submarines.-did Caversham have half a mile of long wire aerial to plug in? I suspect it would have! I'm not quite sure about the length of the letter box scale though and size wise, if it is the standard B/CR steel "cube" shape, it must be in some sort of rack or frame to be at that height. How did I ever miss it? In fact it looks like two sets in a custom made cabinet. Well, as I said, I make mistakes-here's the proof!

It's a shame the phone is in the way. Can anybody post an enlargement of that section [Blade Runner style] for further study? I wonder what other photos are around?

Dave

Last edited by dave walsh; 21st May 2018 at 11:19 am.
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Old 21st May 2018, 10:58 am   #5
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Default Re: Caversham Park, May 1945

The broadcast receivers would have been well adequate for monitoring broadcast transmissions, no real advantage in having comms receivers for monitoring broadcast.

Lawrence.
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Old 21st May 2018, 11:29 am   #6
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Default Re: Caversham Park, May 1945

Good point Lawrence but how much did the organisation know what it was doing at that timet? I'm thinking of the disruptive management in the Enigma film here-a bit like your recent struggle to sort the telephone line against the odds eh!.

Looking again into the room, are they actually radios? Is that a letterbox classic CR rotary dial, push buttons or perhaps even Jacks for the aerial distribution system to all those sets? It would cetainly explain that unit being BEHIND the receivers! We could do without that telephone in the way and an enlargement. My skills are abysmal. Computer Ian came round to help me with I Player yesterday and started explaining all sorts. I said stop stop! just do it!

Dave

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Old 21st May 2018, 11:52 am   #7
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Default Re: Caversham Park, May 1945

Yes, definitely radios....1st pic shows Murphy A92's amongst others.

Looks like the CR100 lid might be slightly ajar....possibly.

Lawrence.
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Old 21st May 2018, 1:15 pm   #8
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Default Re: Caversham Park, May 1945

Thanks Lawrence. OK many apologies for my confusion again. I have been mixing up the threads and the photos so I hope at least something might have made sense Time for a lie down!

Yes photo number one has the CR100 in THAT room . I've been looking at photo number two and behind the large phone sitting on top of the 880S. No need for Blade Runner technology after all.

Al did ask, in his post, whether the operator [in photo two] is sitting in front of a radio or perhaps an intercom. I'm sticking with my aerial feed distributor plug board theory. Even though it is the end of the War it's perhaps likely that they might have stuck with some of the first round of radios for a variety of reasons. Over and Out!

Dave

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Old 21st May 2018, 4:42 pm   #9
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Default Re: Caversham Park, May 1945

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave walsh View Post
Is that a letterbox classic CR rotary dial, push buttons or perhaps even Jacks for the aerial distribution system to all those sets?
There's a telephone type 162 ('pyramid' telephone)behind which looks like a standard BPO or BBC 'B'-gauge jackfield for audio routing. Still used in places today.
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Old 21st May 2018, 5:22 pm   #10
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Default Re: Caversham Park, May 1945

I'll go with that audio routing explanation Russell thanks. I think I've seen the Jackfield's in BBC usage now you mention it. It's not so easy to magnify photo two [for me] but at 300% it looks like leads going from the back of the radios to the jacks.

Dave
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Old 21st May 2018, 5:41 pm   #11
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Default Re: Caversham Park, May 1945

There's some more photo's and an article here, interesting about the wax cylinders:

https://www.transdiffusion.org/2016/...aversham-story

Lawrence.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 11:12 am   #12
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Post Re: Caversham Park, May 1945

My thanks to everyone who has responded so far.

As for my question about the item in photo. 2: "Is it that radio - or what?", I now know it is an 880S. So I have revealed an ignorance, but now stand educated. Prior to this thread, I have never heard about, nor ever seen one - in reality; in photos.; nor drawings. (And that declaration, considering my Q., was probably obvious! ) But in retrospect, I find that quite puzzling, since I've been an enthusiastic 'radio man' for 55+ years of my life - or thereabouts.
Just another example of "You live - and learn".

Al.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 1:12 pm   #13
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Default Re: Caversham Park, May 1945

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skywave View Post
From the BBC News - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44131106.


(snipped)


2. Right-hand side of that same photo.: what is the strange-looking structure that seems vaguely to resemble some sort of UHF / SHF aerial? (Which it obviously isn't).


(snipped)


It reminds me of a series of wiring/jumpering tag-blocks - albeit arranged in a vertical formation, rather than at the rear of an equipment bay.

Following up, I tried to find some pictures to show what I had in mind but the only information I have is that section of 'ED122' referring to tag block wiring ... and even that is way too recent - so borderline OT

Best wishes
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Old 22nd May 2018, 3:38 pm   #14
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Default Re: Caversham Park, May 1945

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nymrod121 View Post

It reminds me of a series of wiring/jumpering tag-blocks - albeit arranged in a vertical formation, rather than at the rear of an equipment bay.
GPO distribution frames use vertical tag-blocks: sometimes fused, sometimes not fused. I can't resolve the picture very well, but there looks to be bunches of cables rising through the centre and leading to what may be indeed vertically-mounted tag-blocks (a modern variant is the 'firtree' block).
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Old 22nd May 2018, 4:04 pm   #15
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Arrow Re: Caversham Park, May 1945

"GPO distribution frames" etc.: something that I have no knowledge nor experience of. But being broadly aware of the raison d'etre for Caversham Park and the consequent need for communications, that does seem to make a lot of sense - well, to me, anyway - so thank you.

Al.
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Old 22nd May 2018, 4:15 pm   #16
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Talking Re: Caversham Park, May 1945

A wander around the 'Net did unearth this - Caversham Park, from approx 1943.

A short-wave listener - and, presumably, being paid do it, too! That's my idea of a hobby - or, rather, was once.

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Old 22nd May 2018, 7:01 pm   #17
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Default Re: Caversham Park, May 1945

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skywave View Post
"GPO distribution frames" etc.: something that I have no knowledge nor experience of.
Well, the GPO and the BBC had much in common, especially when it came to lines, programme feeds and programme input equipment. Equipment was similar either side of the rep-coil demarcation line and the disciplines were similar too. We used to liaise with BT and talked the same language when it came to programme chains, amplifiers, repeater-coils, etc...


Audio jackfields and tag-blocks would be all over the place, and perhaps the access required and the hastiness in which equipment was erected would preclude the niceties of hiding everything behind a bay.


Of course, the object in question may be nothing of the sort!
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Old 23rd May 2018, 1:56 pm   #18
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Default Re: Caversham Park, May 1945

Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skywave View Post
"GPO distribution frames" etc.: something that I have no knowledge nor experience of.
'Well, the GPO and the BBC had much in common, especially when it came to lines, programme feeds and programme input equipment.'
Worth noting, Al, that during WWII, Post-Office teleprinter circuits were installed in a ring around London, and also to Caversham to promulgate news received from there. The system was set up through the joint effort of BBC and GPO Engineers working in co-operation on what was a teleprinter network believed to be the first of its kind.

So the means of promulgating received information telegraphically probably accoiunted for much of the equipment at Caversham rather than just the radios themselves.
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