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Old Yesterday, 4:58 pm   #281
Station X
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

A note for all members posting in this thread.

If you use quotes, especially nested ones, please preview your post before submitting it.

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Old Yesterday, 5:00 pm   #282
Craig Sawyers
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'LIVEWIRE?' View Post
What does that 0.25 ohm resistor achieve? Anything at all??
0.025 ohms - so ten times less effect than a 0.25 ohm one
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Old Yesterday, 5:02 pm   #283
GrimJosef
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers View Post
Scherzinger falls into the same category as Bybee Slipstream Quantum Purifiers http://bybeetech.com/ .
I soldered a couple of Bybee Bullets into a pre-amp for a customer once. He'd picked them up used and not paid nearly the retail price for them. He wanted to know what they sounded like (he's a self-declared believer in 'foo', as the whole class of devices which make no measurable difference is commonly known). While they were with me I made a quick measurement of their series resistance (pretty much the same as a piece of wire) and some rather more careful before-and-after measurements of the pre-amp's performance. I couldn't measure any difference. My customer thought they made the pre-amp sound distinctly worse. He did try them for a few days, just in case they needed to 'burn in'. But he couldn't hear any improvement with time, so out they came.

Cheers,

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Old Yesterday, 6:51 pm   #284
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

I mean seriously, there needs to be more control of all these stupid, rip-off audiophool products. Understandably, you can't sell medicinal products without some sort of licence, and clairvoyants have to state in their adverts that their services are for fun only. WRT hifi products it's not that easy since their are cutting edge widget products on the market that demonstrably do 'work' to a greater or lesser degree, so where do you draw the line between those and the blatant audiophool (stock resistors in a black sheath) ones? And yet another part of me says that if people are stupid enough to believe the ridiculous claims and boasts made for these products, then they deserve to get bitten. But then I think, some sewer rat is making money out of this!

No, this audiophool DIY components market is nothing but a serious rip-off and some kind of legislation needs to be brought in. Maybe the companies selling them should have to apply to have them tested. But then that would need a government department set up to perform the tests plus all the paperwork etc. It would all be too expensive and laden with red tape. No, as I come to the end of this post I've naturally come to my conclusion; let those daft enough to buy such tripe enjoy that tripe (and hope that the manufacturer catches a (bad) cold making them).
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Old Yesterday, 7:00 pm   #285
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

It just gets worser and worser.

Time for some sanity:

http://i.imgur.com/V81nHLV.jpg

Lawrence.
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Old Yesterday, 7:03 pm   #286
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

I do wonder if we are completely misreading the subject.

We are assuming that purchasers are being misled but for a minute consider the possibility that they are not "phools". What you may be observing was never intended to be science, more science fiction and a type of art form. People do not buy art for its function but for its meaning, what it says to them, and the desire to own something rare and exclusive and to feel important.

OK, like art collecting, it helps if you have more money than you can ever possibly spend and can afford to be frivolous.
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Old Yesterday, 7:07 pm   #287
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

Drool - not!
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Old Yesterday, 7:23 pm   #288
deliverance
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

^^^^ They look like handbrake cables off a old Ford Fiesta .
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Old Yesterday, 7:25 pm   #289
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
I mean seriously, there needs to be more control of all these stupid, rip-off audiophool products. Understandably, you can't sell medicinal products without some sort of licence, and clairvoyants have to state in their adverts that their services are for fun only. WRT hifi products it's not that easy since their are cutting edge widget products on the market that demonstrably do 'work' to a greater or lesser degree, so where do you draw the line between those and the blatant audiophool (stock resistors in a black sheath) ones? And yet another part of me says that if people are stupid enough to believe the ridiculous claims and boasts made for these products, then they deserve to get bitten. But then I think, some sewer rat is making money out of this!

No, this audiophool DIY components market is nothing but a serious rip-off and some kind of legislation needs to be brought in. Maybe the companies selling them should have to apply to have them tested. But then that would need a government department set up to perform the tests plus all the paperwork etc. It would all be too expensive and laden with red tape. No, as I come to the end of this post I've naturally come to my conclusion; let those daft enough to buy such tripe enjoy that tripe (and hope that the manufacturer catches a (bad) cold making them).
I sometimes get to feeling this way- but then think, much of it probably doesn't cause actionable harm and it's another thing that keeps disposable income, VAT etc. swilling around the economy. (Though there has been mains/primary side "foo" that has me muttering, "Please, no...." from time to time). After all, just about any leisure activity has after-market products associated with it that range from eminently practical good value to indulgent bling.

And who would want to be the civil servant or Government minister associated with "Control and limitation of products that bring comfort through faith"!
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Old Yesterday, 8:15 pm   #290
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

So......

I've met some of these audiophools, (the ones that believe the real bovine scat, and are prepared to pay, say 70 for a fuse with gold plate end caps), the question begs.....

......How do they make their money? I will have to ask next time I'm approached to rewire an amp with silk insulated platinum wire!

(Yes...that really happened!)

Andy.
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Old Yesterday, 8:21 pm   #291
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

Sorry! Double post

Last edited by Pat Pending; Yesterday at 8:42 pm. Reason: double post
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Old Yesterday, 8:37 pm   #292
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ms660 View Post
It just gets worser and worser.

Time for some sanity:

http://i.imgur.com/V81nHLV.jpg

Lawrence.
Yeah sure - lets hark back to the same mid/late 70's when job adverts in Wireless world said "The successful man" and "The man we will appoint" - like Smiths Industries and Rolls Royce.

I did an electronics degree about that time at Southampton, and there was not a single woman in an intake of 300. The first woman in that course was in 1980 (I was a lab supervisor then), and she went on to get the highest percentage overall and won the Zeppler Prize.

Yup - back to 70's sanity and keep the little woman in her place.
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Old Yesterday, 9:05 pm   #293
ms660
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ms660 View Post
It just gets worser and worser.

Time for some sanity:

http://i.imgur.com/V81nHLV.jpg

Lawrence.
Yeah sure - lets hark back to the same mid/late 70's when job adverts in Wireless world said "The successful man" and "The man we will appoint" - like Smiths Industries and Rolls Royce.

I did an electronics degree about that time at Southampton, and there was not a single woman in an intake of 300. The first woman in that course was in 1980 (I was a lab supervisor then), and she went on to get the highest percentage overall and won the Zeppler Prize.

Yup - back to 70's sanity and keep the little woman in her place.
Gulp The link I posted was to show a more realistic take on Hifi for folks instead of some of the mumbo jumbo and treatise on the obvious being spouted in this thread so far by some "experts" and "audiophools"

Lawrence.
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Old Yesterday, 9:09 pm   #294
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

The late Dr. J.W.Mellor was a famous chemist and "Father" of chemistry in the ceramics industry. His monumental work covering the chemistry of the elements took him over 30 years to complete shortly before his death.
And yet he found time to write one book entitled "Uncle Joe's Nonsense". One quote in his preface by H.Walpole is
"A little nonsense now and then
Is relished by the wisest men"
I think this is why we are mostly enjoying this thread, but with almost 300 messages, I really think it should be closed soon. It is taking me at least 30 mins to get thro' each day's threads. Time I can little afford. The Lunacy exemplified by all the recent links is frankly beyond me.
If somebody seriously tried to convince me of some of this stuff, I know I would have difficulty keeping my temper. I would see it as a direct insult to my intelligence, not something to be undertaken lightly!
Les.
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Old Yesterday, 9:21 pm   #295
Ted Kendall
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

There was one woman in my tutor group, Southampton Uni Electronics, intake of 1977 - a charming lady from Venezuela, if memory serves - but what a novelty it was thought then! We have moved on...

To be fair, lots of advertising from that era carries assumptions which are uncomfortable now - and that ad was American. On this showing, I don't suppose MadMen is far from the truth!
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Old Yesterday, 10:15 pm   #296
GrimJosef
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Pending View Post
So......

I've met some of these audiophools, (the ones that believe the real bovine scat, and are prepared to pay, say 70 for a fuse with gold plate end caps), the question begs.....

......How do they make their money? ...
You might be surprised at the range of backgrounds. To be fair most of the audiophiles I've met are not at the more extreme end. Many of them spend a lot on kit though - thousands (sometimes many thousands) on a record deck, or a custom-made RIAA phono stage, or (in particular) exotic speakers. Some have tried very expensive cables. Quite a few have heard no difference and traded them in (there's a very vigorous second-hand market) for ones costing a few tens of pounds. Thousands might seem like a lot. But I've heard of holidays costing that much and they only last a fortnight, not decades.

At one recent weekend get-together we had a couple of hi-fi traders (they weren't selling anything there), a builder, a health service consultant (high-level management, not medical), a property maintenance chap, a construction project manager, a defence industry engineer, several IT specialists of one sort or another, a retired mechanical engineer (metalworking), a very senior chap from the London fashion industry (he's both a designer and also a very proficient tailor) and a chap who refurbishes machine tools. The retired owner of a hardware shop also stopped by. We'd hoped for a university economics professor but he had to cry off poorly at the last minute.

Cheers,

GJ
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Old Yesterday, 10:24 pm   #297
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

With all due respect Les, reading the thread is not obligatory and the [actual] fact that it is taking 30 mins out of your life to catch up every time would not stand up in the court of legal logic as a rational for closing things down. What's the problem, it's being enjoyed too much? There's no abuse or intolerant language-why spoil other people's fun! Maybe you've just got over involved with it especially as a lot of people claim, like Coronation Street, it's not real

I'm disappointed because I really liked your quote about Dr Mellor and I didn't expect you to follow it up with, effectively, censorship

Dave
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Old Yesterday, 11:11 pm   #298
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by G8HQP Dave View Post
Something got mixed up in the quotes. It wasn't me who linked to Schnerzinger.
That's the problem with nested quotes, second time in this thread. Only the reply portion of a particular post needs quoting, thus avoiding any ambiguity.
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Old Yesterday, 11:16 pm   #299
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
No, this audiophool DIY components market is nothing but a serious rip-off and some kind of legislation needs to be brought in. Maybe the companies selling them should have to apply to have them tested.
I noted this on one of my posts that basically this totally deceptive and frankly dishonest marketing of audio products should be illegal.

I think the existing legislation covers this, but for some reason it is not being applied to the Audiophile industry, perhaps because its not getting reported.

Sometimes people with the technical knowledge who know it is wrong seem to respond to this situation by rolling their eyes and laughing at it (occasionally some might possibly even participate for the dollar) and this thread shows it is an endless source of entertainment, but is there anyone on this entire thread that has made an official complaint to a consumer watchdog or government department ? I cannot say that I have either.
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Old Yesterday, 11:35 pm   #300
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Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJL View Post
I do wonder if we are completely misreading the subject.

We are assuming that purchasers are being misled but for a minute consider the possibility that they are not "phools". What you may be observing was never intended to be science, more science fiction and a type of art form. People do not buy art for its function but for its meaning, what it says to them, and the desire to own something rare and exclusive and to feel important.

OK, like art collecting, it helps if you have more money than you can ever possibly spend and can afford to be frivolous.
This is an excellent observation, how many times do you see audio hardware from this quarter that does not somehow have an outwardly... well... meaningful appearance?

Steve.

PS Please, why should this thread be either closed or deleted? It's the most fun I've ever read here and is in addition to that a very interesting discussion
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Last edited by fetteler; Yesterday at 11:37 pm. Reason: her point to make!
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