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Old 13th Aug 2018, 12:04 pm   #1
bobskie
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Default DialGizmo Not Working

Hi everyone, I recently picked up a GPO 300 telephone and in order to use it I decided to purchase a DialGizmo as the pulse dialing doesn't work on my TalkTalk line. Unfortunately the DialGizmo didn't work, it wouldn't produce any tone and the telephone wouldn't ring when using it. I tried it with different 'phones and a different line however the result was the same. I emailed the company and they sent out a replacement which arrived today but unfortunately this one doesn't seem to be working either. Any ideas on what could be wrong here? The rj11 adapters are working fine as when plugged into each other the 'phone rings and dials so I can rule them out. Thanks for any help I hope I can get this sorted.
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Old 13th Aug 2018, 1:59 pm   #2
Dave Moll
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Default Re: DialGizmo Not Working

Probably not relevant, but when I bought mine some years ago, the label indicating the input and output was reversed, so I was initially connecting the output to the line and the input to the 'phone.

Once I had the above sorted, the unit worked fine on a real telephone line (either the BT network or a PABX extension), but it stubbornly refused to work on a telephone tester that I have. I never did get to the bottom of what was making the difference, though I do seem to remember that it still passed dial tone through, simply not converting the LD pulses to DTMF tones.

You say you've tried it on a different line, but was that line also TalkTalk? I ask this just in case TalkTalk is the common factor.
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Old 13th Aug 2018, 6:35 pm   #3
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Default Re: DialGizmo Not Working

I actually read you're thread while searching for help, definitely correct in that respect. The other line was Virgin Media. No dial tone or anything either, I've no idea what's causing it. Hopefully I'll be able to get my money back if I can't get it working as it certainly wasn't cheap! Strange that it didn't work on the telephone tester. I'll need to send them another email and see what they say.
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Old 13th Aug 2018, 7:41 pm   #4
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Default Re: DialGizmo Not Working

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobskie View Post
Hi everyone, I recently picked up a GPO 300 telephone and in order to use it I decided to purchase a DialGizmo as the pulse dialing doesn't work on my TalkTalk line. Unfortunately the DialGizmo didn't work, it wouldn't produce any tone and the telephone wouldn't ring when using it. I tried it with different 'phones and a different line however the result was the same. I emailed the company and they sent out a replacement which arrived today but unfortunately this one doesn't seem to be working either. Any ideas on what could be wrong here? The rj11 adapters are working fine as when plugged into each other the 'phone rings and dials so I can rule them out. Thanks for any help I hope I can get this sorted.
First, there seems to be a contradiction. On the one hand you say that the line is incompatible with LD dialling, then you say the phone dials out when the DialGizmo is bypassed.

Perhaps you meant when using a different, DTMF, phone.

Were the cable adapters "RJ11 to BT style male", and "RJ11 to BT style female" and were they supplied with the device or did you source them yourself.


Are you sure the 700 is working properly, have you tried dialling out with it on a "normal" line.

As an aside, I was not aware (but not at all surprised) that TalkTalk's fully unbundled lines were DTMF only, does anyone know if the same applies to Sky's fully unbundled offering?
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Old 13th Aug 2018, 7:50 pm   #5
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Default Re: DialGizmo Not Working

As per your quote from Bobskie's original post, his 'phone is actually a 300 series rather than a 700, but the same question still applies. The problem reported, however, is that not even dial tone is getting through the DialGizmo.
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Old 13th Aug 2018, 8:08 pm   #6
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Default Re: DialGizmo Not Working

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
As an aside, I was not aware (but not at all surprised) that TalkTalk's fully unbundled lines were DTMF only, does anyone know if the same applies to Sky's fully unbundled offering?
There seems to be some doubt about whether TalkTalk is MF-only or if it does support LD but with very little margin for error as regards speed and pulse shape. I've never had chance to play about with one of their lines so can't say.

I do know a friend's Sky line worked with my 704.

It's also possible that things vary around the country. For instance I've heard from several sources that LD (at least dials) won't work on Virgin in the north-east.
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Old 13th Aug 2018, 8:21 pm   #7
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Default Re: DialGizmo Not Working

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Originally Posted by Dave Moll View Post
As per your quote from Bobskie's original post, his 'phone is actually a 300 series rather than a 700, but the same question still applies. The problem reported, however, is that not even dial tone is getting through the DialGizmo.
My guess is that he might have sourced the adapters himself, and one or both have 2&5 on the BT connector routed to the wrong pair on the RJ11

The inner pair is most likely to be correct, but I've never played with a DialGizmo.

Linecords pulled from telephones usually use the outer pair, and those from fax machines, with a phone port that the fax can disconnect, are anyone's guess.
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Old 13th Aug 2018, 8:54 pm   #8
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Default Re: DialGizmo Not Working

What I meant was the telephone rings fine when dialed from my mobile with the dialgizmo is unplugged, my dtmf 'phone works fine through the rj11 adapters. These adapters were sourced myself and I had to rewire one of the adapters as it was a crossover, I just matched it up with the other side so the pins were straight through using the continuity test on my multimeter. Was it supposed to be crossed? Like I said these adapters when plugged into each other work fine for incoming and outgoing calls, is there a possibility that something could still be wrong? I'm no expert at 'phone wiring but I would assume it should work fine if the standard 'phones work. I have three rotary 'phones and none work with the line so I assume it is not compatibl with pulse. I used to have Sky and my trim 'phone didn't work with that either but it's possible that was down to dial speed as that is the only one I tried.
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Old 13th Aug 2018, 9:16 pm   #9
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Default Re: DialGizmo Not Working

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobskie View Post
These adapters were sourced myself and I had to rewire one of the adapters as it was a crossover, I just matched it up with the other side so the pins were straight through using the continuity test on my multimeter. Was it supposed to be crossed? Like I said these adapters when plugged into each other work fine for incoming and outgoing calls, is there a possibility that something could still be wrong?
What did you use to connect the two male RJ11's together when you tested the phone direct to the line?

Yes, it is quite possible both leads need to be effectively crossed over. ie 2&5 on the BT plug and socket to the inner pair of the RJ11's

If you look at the RJ11 sockets on the DialGismo, are there four gold pins, or are only two populated?
If there are only two it will be obvious whether the outer or inner pair is needed.

I've seen this sort of thing happen when the correct cables have not been available many times.
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Old 13th Aug 2018, 10:15 pm   #10
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Default Re: DialGizmo Not Working

As should be visible from the image of my DialGizmo's plug, it's the inner pairs of the RJ11s that are used. The same is true of the OldPhoneWorks unit. If both of Bobskie's RJ11s use straight connections, this would indeed produce the symptoms described.
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Last edited by Dave Moll; 13th Aug 2018 at 10:17 pm. Reason: add OldPhoneWorks info
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Old 13th Aug 2018, 11:43 pm   #11
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Default Re: DialGizmo Not Working

There you go bobskie, looks like you modified the wrong lead. Not sure if it's Murphy or Sod you should blame.

Did you use a master socket on the telephone side? If not the phone won't ring when connected through the dialgizmo. The simplest solution is to plug the phone in via a spare ADSL filter.

<Edit>
I have just looked at a picture of the DialGismo and it does not have two RJ11 sockets for phone and line as I thought, it has a captive flying lead with a RJ11 plug on the end for the line connection.

Instead of an adapter cable, you could have used an ADSL filter as a BT plug to RJ11 adapter. The pinput will be correct.

Versatile and useful things are ADSL filters
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Last edited by Graham G3ZVT; 14th Aug 2018 at 12:07 am.
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 7:23 am   #12
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Default Re: DialGizmo Not Working

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
...it has a captive flying lead with a RJ11 plug on the end for the line connection.
It is this flying lead that is shown in my previous post.

Perhaps I should add that the OldPhoneWorks unit does have two sockets, so I only know it uses the inner pair because it works with the lead I used with only the inner pair wired.
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 9:43 am   #13
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Default Re: DialGizmo Not Working

I missed your post Graham, I ended up wiring a BT plug directly to the board where the rj11 was initially connected. I tried to modify the adapter I had but ended up breaking pins when trying to remove them. The DialGizmo worked at first, I had a dial tone and could dial. I tried 'phoning it and no ring with the microfilter plugged in. Do they all have a ring capacitor? I plugged in another and couldn't get any tone again. Swapping back to the original I am back to square 1, no dial tone again! Checked my connections and they are still in place so I don't know why it's stopped working. I'll need to trace the wires again and see if anything has become disconnected.
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 10:10 am   #14
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Default Re: DialGizmo Not Working

My setup is as follows:
1: BT plug to RJ11 socket converter (this connects pins 2&5 of the BT plug to the centre pair of the RJ11 socket - and probably 3&4 of BT to outer pair of RJ11, but these aren't used)
2: DialGizmo
3: crossover cable with RJ11 plug one end and BT socket the other
4: plug-in microfilter for its ringing capacitor
5: telephone configured for three-wire operation using external capacitor

Apart from any re-routing of terminal connections within the telephone (originally using an internal capacitor) to work with a BT three-wire connection, and reversal of the originally-misplaced label on the DialGizmo, no modifications were required to any of the standard components.
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 10:13 am   #15
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Default Re: DialGizmo Not Working

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobskie View Post
... no ring with the microfilter plugged in. Do they all have a ring capacitor?
Not all, but most designed for use with the British telephone system do.
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 10:23 am   #16
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Default Re: DialGizmo Not Working

A bit of development, I plugged the other DialGizmo with the rj11 connector still in place into the rj11 socket of my microfilter plugged into the socket. I now have a dial tone and can dial however when I pick up the handset it knocks the broadband out. It starts working when I put it back down again. Still no ring either. Perhaps I have the 2 wires the wrong way around, could that cause a problem like this? I'll need to open the filter up and have a look for the capacitor.
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 11:21 am   #17
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Default Re: DialGizmo Not Working

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Originally Posted by bobskie View Post
I now have a dial tone and can dial however when I pick up the handset it knocks the broadband out.

That's entirely expected behaviour!
If you normally have a filter at that socket you must leave it in place and plug a second filter into its phone socket to act as as RJ11 adapter.
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 11:53 am   #18
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Default Re: DialGizmo Not Working

That's what I was thinking, I've been looking for one all morning I know I have some somewhere! I'll update when I find one.
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 1:27 pm   #19
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Default Re: DialGizmo Not Working

I tried it with the other microfilter and it's working fine now. Thanks for all your help! I'm glad I made a post or I would never have got it sorted. I'll need to try and get the other one working too, I don't think it should be too hard.
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Old 14th Aug 2018, 3:06 pm   #20
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Default Re: DialGizmo Not Working

If you have changed the flying lead on the non-working one, hopefully it is just a matter of a discontinuity somewhere within your wiring. This can presumably be proven by checking between pins 2 and 5 of the BT plug and the appropriate point where the lead attaches to the circuit board.
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