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Clubs, Groups and Societies For discussions about various clubs, groups and societies relating to our hobbies, such as the BVWS (incl NVCF), BATC, RSGB, APTS, CLPGS, THG, TCC etc. This is NOT an official forum for any of these organisations.

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Old 27th Jun 2018, 9:00 am   #41
YoungManGW
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Default Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin

Putting aside for a moment the wider ethical questions re. traders, I'd like to address the economics. There seems to be a notion abroad that rascally traders will somehow outbid hard-done-by collectors (assuming for a moment the Venn diagram of these doesn't intersect). This is surely nonsense. Traders, by definition, sell on, so it's more likely that their price limit is lower than that of many collectors, to provide for a margin. Anything's only worth what people are prepared to pay for it. And, of course, fashions change, driving prices both up and down.
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 11:31 am   #42
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Default Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin

The contentious saga of the rights & wrongs of traders at BVWS Swapmeets etc. could bang on for ages. But I certainly welcomed the Bulletin statement. I realise that I've banged on about traders several times in the past. But not without reason, having suffered at the hands of a recently banned fellow. However, I realise that there are some jolly decent traders with a keen interest in vintage radio pursuits. Long may they continue. One trader I've held in high regard for many years is Gerry Horrox - a really nice guy.
eBay - well its an online auction site, used internationally. I do use it occasionally for buying & selling. As do quite a few Forum & BVWS folk. To folk in more remote regions of the UK, it's fine for those who can't easily get to RWB or NVCF, or wherever. And it reaches out to a huge amount of prospective buyers and sellers. However, its not eBay's fault if some sellers pretend to be vintage radio enthusiasts, but are just internet wheeler-dealers. Caveat Emptor springs to mind.

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Old 27th Jun 2018, 4:20 pm   #43
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Default Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin

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Originally Posted by kalee20 View Post
Ref the saga of the profiteering trader, yes I can see what Greg is alluding to, and in my mind the question of the spirit of the thing comes into play. Buying something at a BVWS auction and selling on eBay a few months later, repeatedly, is not on.
Isn't it?

If someone wants to sell it and someone wants to buy it, surely the 'trader' can only sell it onto another enthusiast.

I personally don't see the problem with this as it can bring certain items into the reach of those who are unaware of the BVWS meet or can't attend to one.
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 6:46 pm   #44
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Default Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin

I've been following this debate with some interest.

Looking at it from a slightly different and personal angle, I prefer to keep 'competition' out of all my hobbies. Life is competitive enough without introducing competition into our leisure pursuits, in my opinion. However, I am clearly out of kilter with the millions of people who happily pursue competitive interests, be it sport (in which I have no interest whatsoever), cookery contests, amateur radio contests and the whole raft of other activities which humans tend to make into competitive pastimes.

My problem with competitions is that, by definition, there can only be one 'winner'. This means that all the other participants are deemed to be 'losers' and are hence left disappointed. For every delighted winner, there are a great many disappointed losers.

People who class themselves as 'collectors' face the dilemma of being left as losers in the bidding war for desirable items. To be a winner, you need a deep pocket. Dealers exploit this and are clever enough to recognise and snap up (at the dealer's own risk) those items which other people will desire and pay a premium to own. Private enterprise has been ever thus.

The trick (in my personal opinion) is to restrict your interest to repair and restoration, and limit yourself to collecting either whatever happens to come along cheaply, or items that no-one else sees as desirable or collectable! Things go in and out of fashion over time, which does cause prices to rise and fall.
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 7:04 pm   #45
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Default Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin

Am intrigued by the notion that collectors who don't win items at auction, by virtue of being outbid, are somehow losers. My understanding of an auction is that interested parties bid in an effort to win the item, with only one person ultimately doing so.

A solution to avoid any angst amongst those who are not successful might be to end all auctions. Instead we could build a UK inventory of vintage radios and associated spares and test equipment, and take turns to have a particular item in our living rooms / workshops.

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Old 27th Jun 2018, 7:05 pm   #46
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Default Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalee20 View Post
Ref the saga of the profiteering trader, yes I can see what Greg is alluding to, and in my mind the question of the spirit of the thing comes into play. Buying something at a BVWS auction and selling on eBay a few months later, repeatedly, is not on.
Isn't it?

If someone wants to sell it and someone wants to buy it, surely the 'trader' can only sell it onto another enthusiast.

I personally don't see the problem with this as it can bring certain items into the reach of those who are unaware of the BVWS meet or can't attend to one.
Yes - but the aims of the BVWS are to benefit its members, not the wider world.

Selling on eBay will reach a bigger market, and generally result in a better price, for somewhat more effort. A member faced with disposing of an item can easily advertise himself on eBay, so why does he bother with the BVWS auction? Probably because he'd like it to go to another member, at a more affordable price!

I'm a massive fan of eBay, I've picked up several highly desirable items, and I've disposed of several, too (as I live miles away from even the nearest BVWS venue). They have gone to (probably) enthusiasts, but I'll never know. But it's purely commercial, whereas BVWS auctions are run in a friendlier spirit, less money-making, and more trying to help each other as members.
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 8:04 pm   #47
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Default Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin

And the BVWS member does benefit, by selling something he or she wants to sell. I know there are some people who don't want the hassle of selling on ebay themselves, they'd rather someone just take it there and then.

I get your point of course.
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 10:04 pm   #48
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Am intrigued by the notion that collectors who don't win items at auction, by virtue of being outbid, are somehow losers.
Why? What else could they be? There is one winning bidder and there are several non-winning bids. "Not to win" means "to lose", right?

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A solution to avoid any angst amongst those who are not successful might be to end all auctions...
No, you're missing the point. There's nothing wrong with auctions per se. If you don't like "not winning", just don't participate in the auction! Otherwise, don't complain when others - dealers included - are willing to pay more than you, so they "win".
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Old 28th Jun 2018, 5:16 am   #49
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If you don't like "not winning", just don't participate in the auction! Otherwise, don't complain when others - dealers included - are willing to pay more than you, so they "win".
I agree entirely Phil. I was being communistically ironic.
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Old 28th Jun 2018, 8:06 am   #50
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Old 28th Jun 2018, 10:36 am   #51
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Default Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin

In actual fact, because the auctions aren't simultaneously live on internet, the prices attained will almost certainly be lower than would otherwise be the case because it's limited to those in the room who wish to bid, which won't be everyone.

I've only been to three auctions, on of which was a BVWS event, and didn't bid at any of them.

The one thing I would say - which without a doubt is where the commercial bidders hold sway - is in the valve lots. Most lots consist of far more valves than the average restorer could cope with or would wish to bid for, and at the events I attended, it was clear that the bidding was between the same two bidders whose intentions can only have been commercial. But what's the alternative? Break one lot of fifty valves into five lots of ten, so that hobbyist restorers have a better chance of bidding? Not helpful to the seller, and even more work for the hard-pressed auctioneer.

If I have any radios to sell - which isn't often - I've long since abandoned ebay.

I enter then into a local auctioneers under 'collectibles'. They're listed live on internet as well as in the room. No hassle of getting the description right, no need to post and pack, no bother about damage in transit from the auction to the buyer - just a cheque through the post, and in the five instances that I've listed items, a handsome cheque at that.

I'm always amused by the term 'winning' an auction.

The reality is that the person who 'wins' has paid the highest price that anyone was prepared to pay for that item on that day at that venue.
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Old 28th Jun 2018, 1:14 pm   #52
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Default Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin

The only problem with selling at an antiques or house clearance auction are the deductions. They usually charge a listing fee then commission on the hammer price and if the set has a plug on it they will also charge for a pat test even if the radio is sold as not working.
My mate entered a couple of radios and a radiogram in a local auction. They made fair money for what they were but by the time the deductions had been taken he ended up with just over half the hammer price I think.

I think rare and valuable stuff pretty much makes it's money at the BVWS auctions, pre war TV sets, crystal sets and Decca radiograms spring to mind that points to collectors being there and being prepared to pay for what they want.

More Common stuff like TR82s Dac90a s and tatty 1950s woodies maybe don't go for much because most people with a collection have enough already I know I have...
That said I enjoy buying the odd unloved set cheap and bringing it back to life I bought a Bakelite GEC from the last Harpenden bring and buy for 4 and really enjoyed refurbing it. Once it was finished it was cheap enough for me to give it away to a mate who wanted an old radio for his shed/den.
He wouldn't have got it if it had been an expensive or rare set. So there is a market I suppose for everything.

I want to go to Wooton B there is one thing I fancy in the auction.. I don't really have the room... I don't really need it and it's my other half's birthday on that Sunday so the odds are against me...


Rich.

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Old 28th Jun 2018, 3:08 pm   #53
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Default Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin

My magazine copy was waiting in tropical Ramsbottom as eagerly awaited [post 2*]. The usual excellent high quality [in every sense] edition. I was able to check out Greg's editorial statement which I think he would have been obliged to make regardless. As most people suggest, nothing is quite that clear cut in real life and it can all be endlessly debated until your ears start to bleed. Nobody can really take a purist position but the defining point is probaly when things are so blatant it's just taking someone taking the p***!

My concern has usually been when members get too exercised about refusing non-members access to events. In practise it almost never happens! We can tell from enquiries that some potential members are often quite nervous about that. To my knowledge, at least one and possibly two people have joined the BVWS after being encouraged to turn up for a look! Unless something is obviously wrong, I think it's better to be relaxed.

I wasn't so sure about the letter which compiled parts of a thread on here that I'd seen but it was very well done and of course, not everyone in the BVWS will visit here as well

Dave

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Old 28th Jun 2018, 5:04 pm   #54
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Default Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin

I much prefer a paper envelope to a plastic bag.
Aside from any ecological considerations, as a subscriber to all sorts of magazines over the years I have found that paper generally offers better protection against bashed corners, something that a close-fitting plastic bag doesn't protect against in my experience.

Andy
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Old 28th Jun 2018, 8:22 pm   #55
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I prefer a plastic wrapper. I cut it carefully along one end to open it. I then save the wrapper to put my sandwiches in for work... which I eat while visiting this Forum!
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Old 29th Jun 2018, 7:49 am   #56
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Default Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin

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As long as "Do Not Fold" is not seen as a challenge! A bit like "Do Not Drop".
I do seem to recall, in the days of the larger floppy discs, a claim (possibly apocryphal) that a package labelled "floppy discs - do not fold" arrived folded and annotated with "oh yes they do!" At least the inclusion of "Please" makes it clear that it is not a statement but a request - and a polite one at that.
I was once sent a 5.25" floppy disk with instructions stapled to it! Getting off topic here - I know!!

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Old 29th Jun 2018, 8:10 am   #57
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Default Re: BVWS Summer 2018 Bulletin

There is not an easy answer but a polite request and a tip at Christmas can some times help.

Pretty lucky here as the post folk are very good,where as in Scotland the person used to hold the mail out in front of him down the drive when it was teaming down.
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