Can anyone identify this? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Roger13 · 5th Sep 2010, 8:30 am

Hi.

Among a pile of old photos I found this picture of a reel to reel recorder I owned briefly. The photo would have been taken around 1965 and the recorder was already getting a little long in the tooth. The one above it was a little Ultra 4 track. My pride and joy!

I know I owned it, and I should remember what it was, but ..........

Cheers,
Roger.

Ted Kendall · 5th Sep 2010, 9:30 am

This is either a Verdik S1 or an HMV DSR1 - same meat, different gravy. Quite a decent machine, actually - two speeds, three heads, three motors - but probably fell between the twin stools of BSR/Collaro based "cooking" machines and Ferrograph/Brenell.

brenellic2000 · 5th Sep 2010, 9:42 am

I agree with Ted - the four very blurred knobs either side of the blurred head covers with its blurred curved tape path is the give away.

Barry

Roger13 · 5th Sep 2010, 2:18 pm

Hi.

Thanks for that. Verdik rings no bells at all but HMV does.

Barry, - if you think the recorder is vintage you should have seen the camera!!

Cheers,
Roger.

reelguy · 5th Sep 2010, 2:56 pm

My money is on the HMV DSR1. I had one in the 60s

. It was a good m/c if I recall. I remember the output socket doubled as an input depending on whether it was playing or recording.
Sounded good to me then... Great

Peter W............Reelguy

brenellic2000 · 5th Sep 2010, 5:03 pm

Hi Roger,

I'm into vintage cameras too so a blurred photo of that would be good too!

Verdik Sales' history is interesting; I had originally thought they were related to Dudley Steynor's Verdik Ltd but were in fact totally unrelated. The two brothers who ran Verdik Sales were related to George Lane of 'Lane' tape deck fame and at first Verdik distributed the 'Lane' decks; they offered a Lane based Verdik tape recorder.

What happened next I have yet to discover, but by 1958 they had moved to South London and began producing amplifiers and an entirely new tape deck, the S.1 in which Lane had no involvement; however engineers at Lorlin were involved.

HMV and Marconiphone were part of BRC, now part owned by Thorn and no longer directly under EMI; so new models were contract built. HMV chose the Verdik S1 deck (Veritone chose it for their Venus) while Marconiphone adopted a Collaro deck - their second tape recorder was almost identical to the Verdik S22, so whether Verdik contract built the HMV DSR1 and Marconiphone MTR2 I know not, but within a year BRC had become wholy owned by Thorn and these anomolous deck vanished. Verdik had closed by 1962 and was taken over, I understand, by Lorlin.

Can anyone tell me more about Verdik and Lorlin?

Ted - and others - speak highly of the Verdik S1/HMV DSR1, but Which? magazine were not impressed. But then the tape recorder industry were highly critical of the Which? tests!

Barry

Roger13 · 5th Sep 2010, 5:42 pm

Hi Barry,

The camera was a very old Kodak bellows item. Alas it is long gone. I have studiously avoided developing an interest in photography as I have enough expensive hobbies........

. I am 99.9% certain the recorder in question was the HMV. I would have remembered a name like Verdik.

Cheers,
Roger.

Thanks for solving that little mystery.

DOFFERY · 5th Sep 2010, 5:59 pm

More than likely the DSR 1, virually a clone of the Verdik S1 . There were slight differences including the cabinet finish but from the photo, difficult to discern, I still have many spares for this machine. For a 3 head, 3 motor, 2 spd. machine with seperate record/play amps. @ 45gns. in 1959 , this was good value in those days, one of my best sellers .

Colin.

brenellic2000 · 6th Sep 2010, 6:48 am

I'm getting old (no comment Colin!) - either that or swigging too much Iso! It was George Tack of Lane ('Lane' derived from Maurice Lane who financed George's ventures). The photo shows the HMV which had light coloured knobs, the Venus had dark coloured knobs - in theory!

Barry

Roger13 · 6th Sep 2010, 11:09 am

Hi.

At risk of deviating from the original question I would add the following:

The HMV was given to me by my brother's girlfriend in a vain attempt to get me to accept her (bossy girl, I seem to remember)

. While I could not remember what make it was I do remember being a little unimpressed with it. At the time my pride and joy was a little Ultra 6202, which rather put the HMV in the shade when it came to clarity and overall sound quality. I guess there may have been a problem with it but I would have spent considerable time cleaning the heads and degaussing etc. At that time in my youth I was lusting after a nice Ferrograph and this beastie just didn't cut the mustard...

Cheers,
Roger.

brenellic2000 · 6th Sep 2010, 12:58 pm

The Thorn decks of the mid-late 60s (Ultra, HMV, Ferguson, Marconiphone) were well designed and very well made. Thorn intended these to be a global deck to take on Philips, Grundig and the Japanese - and to a certain extent they succeeded. I had the later DB43 3-speed 7" (right-hand piano keys) in the Marconiphone 4210 - a very reliable domestic model.

Granted, they were not in the Ferrograph league but that wasn't their intended market and I too hankered after a Ferograph Srs 7, but having later got one, I wasn't impressed!

Now to more serious issues - did your brother's girlfriend's advance succeed?

Barry

Andrew2 · 6th Sep 2010, 1:48 pm

I had a Ferguson 3224 (single speed, central piano keys) in the late 60's and it was a little marvel. I was always impressed with the solid construction of the deck and took many liberties with it, such as adding an extra pb head, fitting a 'phasing' lever etc. It finally clapped-out in the late 70's, but my friend's identical machine is with me now, being given some TLC.
I agree about the Ferrograph series 7. This was THE machine to drool over back in the late 60's/early 70's and I finally aquired a well-used example from a local radio station about 15 years ago. It needed a set of idlers and a pinch roller and once these had been fitted it worked fine and the audio quality was excellent. But I was never impressed with it mechanically - it seemed old-fashioned and crude, almost as though Ferrograph had just put new 'interface' mechanicals over the top of the series 6. Ah well, we live and learn.

brenellic2000 · 6th Sep 2010, 3:00 pm

Agreed, but the Series 7 was a rushed job to 'modernise' the Series 6 and compete with the truly awesome Revox A77; the Series 7 cost Ferrograph dearly, especially the later probelms with synthetic rubber for idler wheels and those truly awful inaccessible tone and channel slide switch controls - yeuk! But, yes they are easy to operate and have superb performance. The Logic 7 was the one to really drool over!

Barry

Roger13 · 6th Sep 2010, 3:04 pm

Hi.

Yes, I couldn't agree more about the little Thorn decks. I have two here, one 2 track, and 1 four track. The electronics are starting to become a little 'tetchy' but the mechanics are as good as ever. Not much plastic in there!

Barry, it wasn't the Series Seven I was after. I wanted a proper Ferrograph - Series 5 or 6 ........ And I didn't care if it DID feel as though it was built from a Mechano set.

My brother's girlfriend? She wasn't making a play, it just seemed important to her that I liked her. Afraid she failed there!

Cheers,
Roger.

Roger13 · 6th Sep 2010, 3:19 pm

Hello again.

Just for the hell of it, I've had another go at scanning that photo. It's a bit of a lost cause but I think it may make things a little clearer.

Cheers,
Roger.

Kat Manton · 6th Sep 2010, 3:40 pm

Hi,

The question is, has anyone got one and can photograph it, or maybe find and scan a period advertisement?

I'm intrigued, it's a new one on me. I'd like to... er... (sorry Roger) see a little more of it

Cheers, Kat

DOFFERY · 6th Sep 2010, 5:41 pm

Herewith

brenellic2000 · 6th Sep 2010, 6:05 pm

... and the HMV DSR1 and Veritone Venus adverts. The histories of these companies, and many others you may not have heard of, are in my "Guide to British tape recorders" - 3rd edition (hopefully the last fully revised and expanded edition!) out October.

Barry

Roger13 · 7th Sep 2010, 10:30 am

Hi.
Thanks Colin and Barry. And the memories come flooding back........ Why don't we ever think to store our current purchases, for that day in the future when people will say "cor, have you really got one of those?".

Cheers,
Roger.

brenellic2000 · 7th Sep 2010, 3:09 pm

Hmmmm - lack of space!

The trouble with anything old - especially mechanical - is that it needs to be used to keep it in fine fettle... and then the cost of maintaining it far surpasses its true value particularly when tape (or film) becomes obsolete and we all end up with hundreds of obsolete, unusable items - which we then buy up as the price is dirt cheap and we always wanted one of those to rekindle our childhood fantasies.......

Gosh, we are sentimental old souls, aren't we?!

Barry

5th Sep 2010, 8:30 am	#1
Roger13 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wrentham, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 508	Can anyone identify this? Hi. Among a pile of old photos I found this picture of a reel to reel recorder I owned briefly. The photo would have been taken around 1965 and the recorder was already getting a little long in the tooth. The one above it was a little Ultra 4 track. My pride and joy! I know I owned it, and I should remember what it was, but .......... Cheers, Roger. Attached Thumbnails

5th Sep 2010, 9:30 am	#2
Ted Kendall Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 3,670	Re: Can anyone identify this? This is either a Verdik S1 or an HMV DSR1 - same meat, different gravy. Quite a decent machine, actually - two speeds, three heads, three motors - but probably fell between the twin stools of BSR/Collaro based "cooking" machines and Ferrograph/Brenell.

5th Sep 2010, 9:42 am	#3
brenellic2000 Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 1,647	Re: Can anyone identify this? I agree with Ted - the four very blurred knobs either side of the blurred head covers with its blurred curved tape path is the give away. Barry

5th Sep 2010, 2:18 pm	#4
Roger13 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wrentham, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 508	Re: Can anyone identify this? Hi. Thanks for that. Verdik rings no bells at all but HMV does. Barry, - if you think the recorder is vintage you should have seen the camera!! Cheers, Roger.

5th Sep 2010, 2:56 pm	#5
reelguy Heptode Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bexhill on Sea, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 746	Re: Can anyone identify this? My money is on the HMV DSR1. I had one in the 60s. It was a good m/c if I recall. I remember the output socket doubled as an input depending on whether it was playing or recording. Sounded good to me then... Great Peter W............Reelguy

5th Sep 2010, 5:03 pm	#6
brenellic2000 Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 1,647	Re: Can anyone identify this? Hi Roger, I'm into vintage cameras too so a blurred photo of that would be good too! Verdik Sales' history is interesting; I had originally thought they were related to Dudley Steynor's Verdik Ltd but were in fact totally unrelated. The two brothers who ran Verdik Sales were related to George Lane of 'Lane' tape deck fame and at first Verdik distributed the 'Lane' decks; they offered a Lane based Verdik tape recorder. What happened next I have yet to discover, but by 1958 they had moved to South London and began producing amplifiers and an entirely new tape deck, the S.1 in which Lane had no involvement; however engineers at Lorlin were involved. HMV and Marconiphone were part of BRC, now part owned by Thorn and no longer directly under EMI; so new models were contract built. HMV chose the Verdik S1 deck (Veritone chose it for their Venus) while Marconiphone adopted a Collaro deck - their second tape recorder was almost identical to the Verdik S22, so whether Verdik contract built the HMV DSR1 and Marconiphone MTR2 I know not, but within a year BRC had become wholy owned by Thorn and these anomolous deck vanished. Verdik had closed by 1962 and was taken over, I understand, by Lorlin. Can anyone tell me more about Verdik and Lorlin? Ted - and others - speak highly of the Verdik S1/HMV DSR1, but Which? magazine were not impressed. But then the tape recorder industry were highly critical of the Which? tests! Barry

5th Sep 2010, 5:42 pm	#7
Roger13 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wrentham, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 508	Re: Can anyone identify this? Hi Barry, The camera was a very old Kodak bellows item. Alas it is long gone. I have studiously avoided developing an interest in photography as I have enough expensive hobbies......... I am 99.9% certain the recorder in question was the HMV. I would have remembered a name like Verdik. Cheers, Roger. Thanks for solving that little mystery.

5th Sep 2010, 5:59 pm	#8
DOFFERY Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 1,488	Re: Can anyone identify this? More than likely the DSR 1, virually a clone of the Verdik S1 . There were slight differences including the cabinet finish but from the photo, difficult to discern, I still have many spares for this machine. For a 3 head, 3 motor, 2 spd. machine with seperate record/play amps. @ 45gns. in 1959 , this was good value in those days, one of my best sellers . Colin.

6th Sep 2010, 6:48 am	#9
brenellic2000 Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 1,647	Re: Can anyone identify this? I'm getting old (no comment Colin!) - either that or swigging too much Iso! It was George Tack of Lane ('Lane' derived from Maurice Lane who financed George's ventures). The photo shows the HMV which had light coloured knobs, the Venus had dark coloured knobs - in theory! Barry

6th Sep 2010, 11:09 am	#10
Roger13 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wrentham, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 508	Re: Can anyone identify this? Hi. At risk of deviating from the original question I would add the following: The HMV was given to me by my brother's girlfriend in a vain attempt to get me to accept her (bossy girl, I seem to remember) . While I could not remember what make it was I do remember being a little unimpressed with it. At the time my pride and joy was a little Ultra 6202, which rather put the HMV in the shade when it came to clarity and overall sound quality. I guess there may have been a problem with it but I would have spent considerable time cleaning the heads and degaussing etc. At that time in my youth I was lusting after a nice Ferrograph and this beastie just didn't cut the mustard... Cheers, Roger.

6th Sep 2010, 12:58 pm	#11
brenellic2000 Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 1,647	Re: Can anyone identify this? The Thorn decks of the mid-late 60s (Ultra, HMV, Ferguson, Marconiphone) were well designed and very well made. Thorn intended these to be a global deck to take on Philips, Grundig and the Japanese - and to a certain extent they succeeded. I had the later DB43 3-speed 7" (right-hand piano keys) in the Marconiphone 4210 - a very reliable domestic model. Granted, they were not in the Ferrograph league but that wasn't their intended market and I too hankered after a Ferograph Srs 7, but having later got one, I wasn't impressed! Now to more serious issues - did your brother's girlfriend's advance succeed? Barry

6th Sep 2010, 1:48 pm	#12
Andrew2 Nonode Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Dukinfield, Cheshire, UK. Posts: 2,037	Re: Can anyone identify this? I had a Ferguson 3224 (single speed, central piano keys) in the late 60's and it was a little marvel. I was always impressed with the solid construction of the deck and took many liberties with it, such as adding an extra pb head, fitting a 'phasing' lever etc. It finally clapped-out in the late 70's, but my friend's identical machine is with me now, being given some TLC. I agree about the Ferrograph series 7. This was THE machine to drool over back in the late 60's/early 70's and I finally aquired a well-used example from a local radio station about 15 years ago. It needed a set of idlers and a pinch roller and once these had been fitted it worked fine and the audio quality was excellent. But I was never impressed with it mechanically - it seemed old-fashioned and crude, almost as though Ferrograph had just put new 'interface' mechanicals over the top of the series 6. Ah well, we live and learn. __________________ Andy G1HBE.

6th Sep 2010, 3:00 pm	#13
brenellic2000 Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 1,647	Re: Can anyone identify this? Agreed, but the Series 7 was a rushed job to 'modernise' the Series 6 and compete with the truly awesome Revox A77; the Series 7 cost Ferrograph dearly, especially the later probelms with synthetic rubber for idler wheels and those truly awful inaccessible tone and channel slide switch controls - yeuk! But, yes they are easy to operate and have superb performance. The Logic 7 was the one to really drool over! Barry

6th Sep 2010, 3:04 pm	#14
Roger13 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wrentham, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 508	Re: Can anyone identify this? Hi. Yes, I couldn't agree more about the little Thorn decks. I have two here, one 2 track, and 1 four track. The electronics are starting to become a little 'tetchy' but the mechanics are as good as ever. Not much plastic in there! Barry, it wasn't the Series Seven I was after. I wanted a proper Ferrograph - Series 5 or 6 ........ And I didn't care if it DID feel as though it was built from a Mechano set. My brother's girlfriend? She wasn't making a play, it just seemed important to her that I liked her. Afraid she failed there! Cheers, Roger.

6th Sep 2010, 3:19 pm	#15
Roger13 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wrentham, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 508	Re: Can anyone identify this? Hello again. Just for the hell of it, I've had another go at scanning that photo. It's a bit of a lost cause but I think it may make things a little clearer. Cheers, Roger. Attached Thumbnails

6th Sep 2010, 3:40 pm	#16
Kat Manton Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 1,700	Re: Can anyone identify this? Hi, The question is, has anyone got one and can photograph it, or maybe find and scan a period advertisement? I'm intrigued, it's a new one on me. I'd like to... er... (sorry Roger) see a little more of it Cheers, Kat

6th Sep 2010, 5:41 pm	#17
DOFFERY Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 1,488	Re: Can anyone identify this? Herewith Attached Thumbnails

6th Sep 2010, 6:05 pm	#18
brenellic2000 Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 1,647	Re: Can anyone identify this? ... and the HMV DSR1 and Veritone Venus adverts. The histories of these companies, and many others you may not have heard of, are in my "Guide to British tape recorders" - 3rd edition (hopefully the last fully revised and expanded edition!) out October. Barry Attached Thumbnails

7th Sep 2010, 10:30 am	#19
Roger13 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wrentham, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 508	Re: Can anyone identify this? Hi. Thanks Colin and Barry. And the memories come flooding back........ Why don't we ever think to store our current purchases, for that day in the future when people will say "cor, have you really got one of those?". Cheers, Roger.

7th Sep 2010, 3:09 pm	#20
brenellic2000 Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 1,647	Re: Can anyone identify this? Hmmmm - lack of space! The trouble with anything old - especially mechanical - is that it needs to be used to keep it in fine fettle... and then the cost of maintaining it far surpasses its true value particularly when tape (or film) becomes obsolete and we all end up with hundreds of obsolete, unusable items - which we then buy up as the price is dirt cheap and we always wanted one of those to rekindle our childhood fantasies....... Gosh, we are sentimental old souls, aren't we?! Barry