UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Telephony and Telecomms

Notices

Vintage Telephony and Telecomms Vintage Telephones, Telephony and Telecomms Equipment

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 1:21 pm   #1
Sparks
Hexode
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 480
Default Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

The major cities were issued with 01, 021 and so on. I assume the GPO simply ran out of numbers in this sequence, meaning Leeds had to make do with something more random. Or was there a more scientific reason ?

Thankyou.
Sparks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 1:32 pm   #2
duncanlowe
Octode
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Stafford, Staffs. UK.
Posts: 1,558
Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

Googled it. It seems Liverpool got the L = 5. M=6 for Manchester. 7 8 and 9 were not allocated.
duncanlowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 1:40 pm   #3
duncanlowe
Octode
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Stafford, Staffs. UK.
Posts: 1,558
Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

Most cities and towns used a different model for numbering and leeds conforms to this.

LE = 53. This must have been the second one of these (LEdbury was the first) so Ledbury 0531 Leeds 0532.

One that disappeared, Nuneaton. NU = 0682 (0681 is Mull)
duncanlowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 1:51 pm   #4
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 22,838
Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

'0' was just the STD prefix. The major city codes were essentially shortcodes because these exchanges received a lot of incoming calls, so London got 1, Birmingham 21, Edinburgh 31, Glasgow 41, Liverpool 51 and Manchester 61. Most places got 3 digit codes loosely based on the first 2 letters of the exchange name, so SToke-on-Trent got 782, STafford 785, LEeds 532 etc.
paulsherwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 2:00 pm   #5
Sparks
Hexode
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 480
Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

Thankyou all. Wasn't Tyneside, Newcastle and Sunderland etc 091 ?
Sparks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 2:03 pm   #6
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 22,838
Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

Yes, I always forget that one.
paulsherwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 2:16 pm   #7
Richard_FM
Octode
 
Richard_FM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Stockport, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 1,658
Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

091 was a later addition, around the time London was split into 071 (for Shirley in Temple!) & 081 (for Eric in Clapton!).
__________________
Hello IT: Have you Tried Turning It Off & On Again?
Richard_FM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 6:36 pm   #8
duncanlowe
Octode
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Stafford, Staffs. UK.
Posts: 1,558
Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
'0' was just the STD prefix. The major city codes were essentially shortcodes because these exchanges received a lot of incoming calls, so London got 1, Birmingham 21, Edinburgh 31, Glasgow 41, Liverpool 51 and Manchester 61. Most places got 3 digit codes loosely based on the first 2 letters of the exchange name, so SToke-on-Trent got 782, STafford 785, LEeds 532 etc.
And that's interesting, because it shows that the fourth digit doesn't always follow the aplhabetic order of the the exchange name which most do, STo being 782 while STa is 785. I wonder what exchange name was used to derive 0889? Uttoxeter? Rugeley? Both share the code.

For many years, Orange listed the name of the exchange called on the bill. The exchange I often called was Dapple Heath, which is a tiny hamlet of just a few houses, though the actual exchange was Weston. I suspect this oddity was also to do with how the numbering system had originally been split.
duncanlowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 7:44 pm   #9
Sparks
Hexode
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 480
Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

I just naively assumed that 0532 was a random number, not realising that it was related to an exchange name. I was working on the BT Paging service in 1995 when the code was changed completely to 0113. Many customers, not unreasonably, complained that 01532 wasn't working!
Sparks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 9:00 pm   #10
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 22,838
Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

Lots of places got codes that didn't correspond to the exchange name for whatever reason. Oxford got 865 for example.
paulsherwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 9:29 pm   #11
Dave Moll
Dekatron
 
Dave Moll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 5,502
Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

Of course Oxford was originally 0092 (0OX2), but was later changed to 0865 (in early 1970s?) when all the 00 codes were eliminated prior to 00 becoming the international access code (which was previously 010).
__________________
Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)
Dave Moll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 10:12 pm   #12
duncanlowe
Octode
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Stafford, Staffs. UK.
Posts: 1,558
Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moll View Post
Of course Oxford was originally 0092 (0OX2), but was later changed to 0865 (in early 1970s?) when all the 00 codes were eliminated prior to 00 becoming the international access code (which was previously 010).
Ah that works out. I do remember the change from 010 to 00 for international as I was doing overseas exchange at the time.

It does lead me to wonder about the allocation of country codes. As above to call my friend in France I dialled 01033.. To call home when there, 1944....

Germany code 49, Poland 48, UK 44. Can't see it being an alphabetic thing, or even any kind of geographic logic so next discussion?
duncanlowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Dec 2021, 11:00 pm   #13
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 22,838
Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

19 was basically the French STD code, so to call anywhere outside your immediate area you dialled 19 and waited for a dialtone, then dialed the rest of the number. I've no idea if it still works like that. Funny lot the French
paulsherwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Dec 2021, 2:20 am   #14
rambo1152
Dekatron
 
rambo1152's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 3,103
Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
19 was basically the French STD code, so to call anywhere outside your immediate area you dialled 19 and waited for a dialtone, then dialed the rest of the number. I've no idea if it still works like that. Funny lot the French
19 was the French international egress code, before it became 00
__________________
--
Graham.
G3ZVT
rambo1152 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Dec 2021, 2:34 am   #15
Maarten
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 3,370
Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

Geograhpy was followed slightly, sometimes. From top to bottom of the coastline:

31 The Netherlands
32 Belgium
33 France
34 Spain
351 Portugal (other 35x distributed randomly over Europe)

Other country codes also seem to be somewhat grouped together.

3-digit country codes were apparently used for smaller countries, or in case of 420-421 and 381-389 for countries that used to have a 2-digit code but were split up.
Maarten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Dec 2021, 10:30 am   #16
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 22,838
Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
19 was the French international egress code, before it became 00
You may well be right and memory is playing tricks, but when I was staying in Paris in the early 80s I'm sure it was necessary to dial 2 digits (which I remember as 19) and wait for a dialtone before dialling ether a non-Parisian French or international number. It's a long time ago though.
paulsherwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Dec 2021, 11:21 am   #17
Sparks
Hexode
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 480
Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

To dial Leeds from northern France ( anywhere outside Paris) in the 1980s was '19 44 532 xxxxxx'. I seem to remember it was the same from Greece in the 1990s.
Sparks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Dec 2021, 11:54 pm   #18
hamid_1
Heptode
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks. UK.
Posts: 575
Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

International dialling codes consist of an international access code + country code + local number with area code if applicable. Callers from abroad do not dial the initial 0 of UK and most other countries' area codes, or the initial 9 of Spanish area codes.

In the UK, the international access code used to be 010. From France it used to be 19. From the USA and Canada it's 011. Other countries had other international access codes. Europe eventually introduced a standard international access code from all EU countries which is 00.

The country codes are internationally standardised.
1 = North America and Caribbean
2 = Africa
3,4 = Europe
5 = South America
6 = Australasia
7 = Russia & former Soviet Union
8,9 = Asia

In the case of Europe, country code 35x is used by a number of smaller European countries, eg.
351 = Portugal
352 = Ireland
353 = Luxembourg
and so on.

In the case of North America and the Caribbean, it's the area code that determines which country the call goes to. There's no obvious way to tell whether a number is in the US, Canada or the Caribbean, or how much you'll be charged to call it. I happen to know Area code 809 is in the Caribbean. In the past, North American and Caribbean area codes always had a 0 or 1 as their second digit but this is no longer the case. Also, local numbers were not allocated in the range 555-xxxx except 555-1212 which was directory assistance / enquiries. Hence you always see phone numbers beginning 555 in American movies, because those numbers are fictional and do not actually exist.
hamid_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th Dec 2021, 1:13 am   #19
hamid_1
Heptode
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks. UK.
Posts: 575
Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

To understand how UK area codes were allocated, you need to go back to when major cities first had automatic dialling. Dials had letters and numbers. Local numbers in big cities had a 3-letter exchange name and 4-digit number e.g. in London, SKY 4321 was the number for Heathrow Airport and ABBey 1234 was the number for London Transport.
It was thought that a name + 4-digit number would be easier to remember than a full 7-figure number. Most people can remember 4-digit numbers without having to write them down, hence bank ATM cash cards have 4-digit PIN codes.

UK dials had the following letter+digit combination:
1 - no letters
2 - ABC
3 - DEF
4 - GHI
5 - JKL
6 - MN
7 - PRS
8 - TUV
9 - WXY
0 - OQZ

(In the US, the letter O is the digit 6. In the UK the letter O was the digit zero to avoid confusion between 0 and O.)

When subscriber trunk dialling was introduced, London was given the code 01, perhaps not surprisingly as it's Britain's capital city. The other major cities were given 0x1 codes where the x is the first letter of the city name converted to a digit as in the list above. e.g.
021 - Birmingham (B=2)
031 - Edinburgh (E=3)
041 - Glasgow (G=4)
051 - Liverpool (L=5)
061 - Manchester (M=6)
071 and 081 were initially not allocated, but later became inner and outer London area codes between 1990 and 1997, eventually replaced by 020.
091 - Wearside and Tyneside (W=9)
Although I think the last code came later, it fits in with the alphanumeric sequence.

Edinburgh is a relatively small city. There was no need for 7-digit local numbers, but because Glasgow had them, how could the capital of Scotland not have them? In order not to be outdone by Glasgow, Edinburgh phone numbers were made longer by repeating the first digit which was then absorbed by the exchange.

Other towns and cities which didn't have 7-digit numbers were given area codes beginning 0 + first two letters of place name + another digit, e,g.
0BR2 = Bristol (0272)
0BR3 = Brighton (0273)
0BR4 - Bradford (0274)
and so on. For place names with two words e.g. High Wycombe, Bishops Stortford the first letter of each word was often used, so High Wycombe was 0HW4 or 0494 in digits.

Can you see the pattern now?

I'm still not sure how the last digit was chosen, though.
hamid_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th Dec 2021, 1:41 am   #20
fetteler
Heptode
 
fetteler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK.
Posts: 997
Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

A great explanation. Thank you

Steve.
__________________
Those who lack imagination cannot imagine what is lacking...
fetteler is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT. The time now is 9:24 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2021, Paul Stenning.