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Old 20th Jan 2019, 3:15 pm   #1
Studio263
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Default ICC5 swansong

I collected a Nordmende set from forum member TonyDuell last week. It was offered as a non-worker in a scruffy cabinet, so really only good as a source of parts.

For whatever reason the ICC5 got a bad press but they were an advanced design and unusual for the time for a European chassis in that they didn't make widespread use of Philips techniques or components.

I came to know the ICC5 through the B&O sets that used it - MX3000, MX4500 and MX5000. B&O had also used the previous ICC3 in the MX2000 and the M20, so they weren't much of a culture shock - the removal of the big mains transformer that the ICC3 had was clearly the key design goal. Sadly the tubes that B&O used in these weren't up to much and good as they were the chassis couldn't quite meet the expectations of B&O customers in terms of quality and reliability, but then what else could? I've not seen a B&O ICC5 set for years but there are still a good few ICC3 ones floating about, hence my interest in this one. The special ICs and other parts used are getting hard to source now when repairs are required.

It may seem silly to repair a set which is going to be used for parts but how else does one know what of it can be used again? A clean, known-good chassis on the shelf is an asset, piles of dirty, possibly useless panels are not. This one needed a line output transistor, a good solder-up and a clean up of the corrosion that had begin to set in around the two rechargeable batteries (one for the main micro, one for the teletext page memory). After that it was ready to go, and produced a remarkably good picture for such a notorious set.

Just in case you never see a working ICC5 again, I've attached a picture.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 3:39 pm   #2
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

I still have the Ferguson 51K5 which was the set we used at home between 1988 to 1994. It's upstairs in the shop store room.
The 51K5 employed a Philips 110 degree CRT. Had good NICAM performance.
Except for a dry joint on the line flyback tuning capacitor the set never gave any trouble.
Some Ferguson ICC5 models employed a 21" 90 degree CRT and these were generally reliable. Worst of the lot, for me that is, was the model 59K7.

Perhaps we should preserve a few ICC5 sets so we can recall memories of these awful sets. Every TV collector should have one!

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Old 20th Jan 2019, 3:39 pm   #3
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

I rather liked the ICC5, it was more akin on principle to the TX10 in all but the frame output stage.
I had long and meaningful relationships with them
I found the chassis to be reasonably reliable and well laid out in general maybe a bit too compact, there were a few quirks without a doubt , the E-W stage once sorted with modified coil etc. wasn't so unreliable after all.

The IMC versions were a completely different animal though .

it was only when they aged you started to get some real weird faults.

The ICC7/8 were a lot more conventional circuitry wise, and posed few real problems.

The ICC9 and IDC2 were not very reliable at all, possibly the least reliable of the lot, the IKC2 was a close second!

The ICC17 was not a bad set either Lopt excepted, the ICC20/21 was a bit of a mixed bag and far more complex.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 3:46 pm   #4
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

The ICC6 was very reliable. Remember the TX90E? wasn't too bad either. Chassis was fitted to 14" portable sets and 20" table models.

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Old 20th Jan 2019, 3:49 pm   #5
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

I wasn't overly keen on the TX90E due to difficulty of access, the ICC6 was a much later chassis and was fairly reliable apart from the odd lopt failing I did have a few duff tuners which MCES could not repair at the time.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 3:56 pm   #6
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

IKC2 wasn't too bad. Chassis fitted to 15" real flat CRT portable sets and 21" table models.
Remember the TX80? Evidently the last UK designed chassis.

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Old 20th Jan 2019, 3:58 pm   #7
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

IMC ICC5 sets were fitted with that weird double planar CRT. Best forgotten.

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Old 20th Jan 2019, 4:01 pm   #8
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

The only thing I never really liked about the ICC 5 was the Thomson/videocolour tubes, the Geometry on the superplanar tubes left a bit to be desired too.

Incidentally on the Ferguson versions if you lost the pin number for the lock it is well known that pressing the fastext keys R G B and Y for 5 seconds to unlock the set, what is perhaps is less well known is that you can re-set the pin number as well, you enter change pin number and when the set requests the old pin number you again enter R G B and Y for 5 secs, and then this allows you to enter a new pin number,
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 4:04 pm   #9
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

Quote:
Originally Posted by FERNSEH View Post
IKC2 wasn't too bad. Chassis fitted to 15" real flat CRT portable sets and 21" table models.
Remember the TX80? Evidently the last UK designed chassis.

DFWB.
Another last resurrection of the Syclops design from the 9K days
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 12:32 am   #10
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

I'd be tempted to keep that set as is, the white looks far nicer than the usual boring black boxes and the channel display behind the speaker mesh is nice. I have a Telefunken mono ICC5 which looks very similar to this, but has mono sound.

Nice sets when they work! The one component I always had to replace was a 220uF - or 470uF? - cap right at the front of the chassis which prevented proper startup it was an unusual red bodied electrolytic.

Despite the considerable integration, the pic geometry is all adjusted via pots at the rear, I have had problems with these going intermittent.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 4:28 am   #11
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

I also think it would be a pity to use this set for parts. The picture tubes and external design were quite advanced for its time, so a collectors item in itself, arguably more unique designwise than the B&O MX series. The IC's don't seem too hard to source to me, especially as Ferguson spares from former repair shops.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 11:00 am   #12
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben View Post
I'd be tempted to keep that set as is
Do you want it then? That's the thing, no-one does. I could offer it here as a fully working set, ready to use and free to take away and there would be no interest.

An interesting ICC5 quirk that the test card picture shows is the odd transfer characteristic of the video amplifier. With the brightness and contrast set correctly the mid-greys appear slightly dark, note the test card background. They all seemed to be like this, it was a particular problem with the B&Os because they had a tinted screen over the tube.

Later B&O chassis designs (Unity 1 and Unity 2) had a thing called 'Black Stretch' which did a similar thing, revealing detail in dark areas of the picture. The effect was rather more subtle though; you hardly notice it and instead just see a really nice picture.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 11:10 am   #13
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

Seems any mention of the ICC5 invites lively discussion.

An ICC5 topic started November 2015: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=121432

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Old 21st Jan 2019, 3:52 pm   #14
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Studio263 View Post
Quote:
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I'd be tempted to keep that set as is
Do you want it then? That's the thing, no-one does. I could offer it here as a fully working set, ready to use and free to take away and there would be no interest.
Strange, since there seems no end to the amount of B&O sets one encounters (nice design but they're all the same externally so it gets boring fast) but a designer model Nordmende is even rare on the continent (maybe not in Germany itself?). Maybe because ICC5 wasn't the best chassis. For preserving B&O sets the unity chassis seems the better choice, except for MX1500 and MX2000.

You could try and offer the set on ebay if you don't want it in your own collection, who knows... However the size and weight would not suit shipping.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 7:12 pm   #15
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

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You could try and offer the set on ebay if you don't want it in your own collection, who knows... However the size and weight would not suit shipping.
Its not worth the hassle; there must be more TV collectors on this forum than there are on eBay but I can't see anyone falling over themselves to add it to their own collections, even for nothing.

I'll hold off breaking it up for a couple of weeks just in case anyone on the forum wants it free of charge as a complete and working set and can come and pick it up but I that is very unlikely to happen. There's a world of difference between thinking that someone else should preserve something in someone else's (in my case limited) space and actually doing those things yourself.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 7:53 pm   #16
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

I'm not familiar with that chassis, I suppose it came along after I left the trade. I'm impressed by the picture geometry, it's almost perfect, unusual for a CRT.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 8:56 pm   #17
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

The ICC5 service training tape.

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Old 21st Jan 2019, 9:06 pm   #18
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

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Quote:
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You could try and offer the set on ebay if you don't want it in your own collection, who knows... However the size and weight would not suit shipping.
Its not worth the hassle; there must be more TV collectors on this forum than there are on eBay but I can't see anyone falling over themselves to add it to their own collections, even for nothing.

I'll hold off breaking it up for a couple of weeks just in case anyone on the forum wants it free of charge as a complete and working set and can come and pick it up but I that is very unlikely to happen. There's a world of difference between thinking that someone else should preserve something in someone else's (in my case limited) space and actually doing those things yourself.
If I were UK based, I'd collect it - or swap it for some "boring" B&O stuff or possibly a scrap ICC5 chassis. For a bit of fun, you could alays try and see if there are collectors on ebay. Some older continental sets seem to fetch stupid prices, and this is after all a bit of a design set. It might be too new however. You could very well be right, but who knows.

Last edited by Maarten; 21st Jan 2019 at 9:14 pm.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 9:17 pm   #19
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

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I'm not familiar with that chassis, I suppose it came along after I left the trade. I'm impressed by the picture geometry, it's almost perfect, unusual for a CRT.
Even (or especially) unusual for this CRT. One of the very first 'real flat' ones, made by Videocolor apparently exclusively for Thomson (they might have held some patents).

This tube required extra geometry correction circuits, a 'gullwing correction' in the N/S direction amongst others.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 10:32 pm   #20
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Default Re: ICC5 swansong

Somewhere I have one of those ICC5 flat screens too. A Thomson. It's in storage but I will be going through a lot of stuff soon and will dig it out - hasn't been used for at least 10 years.

Unfortunately I am not in a position to give this OP set a home, it would be great if it were preserved but obviously one must be realistic! Maybe I will makeover one of my black ICC5s into white! ;-)

A fellow forum member provided me with a copy of the ICC5 TAPE some time ago. When I next have one on the bench I will have to watch it to refresh my memory.
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