Re finishing , reviving cabinets - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

chipp1968 · 17th Jul 2007, 1:13 pm

The Danish oil thread made me think about some sets i want to restore . I have revived cabinets with t cut then wax polish before , but have heard that you can apply french polish or mayb even danish oil with a cloth to revive original finishes ? anyone have any experience ,I dont really want to wreck somthing by experimenting .TROUBLE is that alot of aged finishes becoe degraded opaic and dull , also crazed or the grain opens up making a typeof crazing , i wonder if applying somthing can re melt the existing finish to make an improvement I really prefer to keep original finishes if possible . Also lack of worshop and the right equipment means re finishing can be a problem wihout spraying especially on bigstuff

Radio_Dave · 17th Jul 2007, 2:19 pm

I have used Danish Oil to revive the cabinets on two of my Fenman II's and it has worked very well. The cabinets were T-Cutted and wiped over with whte spirit before applying the Danish oil.

The scratches which went down to the wood regained a matching colour and some gloss, but it failed to fill in the depth of the damage.

The scratches which are only in the finish, but which have a white appearance, respond very well indeed

However, I can't say that I recommend the idea. I managed to get an acceptable result, but if it hadn't worked and then decided to strip the cabinet, I would have been faced with all sorts of problems where the oil penetrated only certain parts of the veneer.

David

joe · 17th Jul 2007, 3:56 pm

According to Andy Emmerson's excellent book "Electronic Classics" it is possible to use stuff called lacquer retarder mixed with cellulose thinners. I believe that the idea is that the thinners softens the dodgy surface and then it is allowed to dry out, slowly because of the retarder.

I've never tried it mainly because I don't know where to get the stuff - except in 5 gallon drums from the manufacturer!

Has any body else tried it?

Joe

Mike Phelan · 17th Jul 2007, 4:25 pm

Our polishers at Thorn refurb depot always used French polish and filled the scratches with Beaumontage (wax crayons) after rubbing the veneered cabinets down with Trollull steel wool from 0 to 0000. This was in the late 1970s where veneered cabinets had a cellulose or 2-pack finish.
They did make a very good job of them, as well.

I think that were Danish Oil freely available then, they would have used it on the cabinets that did not have a high gloss with no raised grain - like most of the German radios of the 1950s.

I have successfully used (but not on a radio) Rustin's plastic 2-pack coating - gives a deep glass-like finish with considerable depth.

David
If your FenMen do need refinishing, it's worth saying that the veneer on my cabinet came off easily with a hot-air gun, in single sheets. More of that anon when I have re-veneered it (American walnut).

PaulR · 18th Jul 2007, 9:20 pm

I have revived cabinets using Danish oil. I rub stain into the scratches and then when it has dried I apply the oil to the whole thing. This leaves a bit of a mess on the parts where the original finish is good so I cut the whole thing back with Brasso. The idea is that this removes the oil from the good parts but leaves it where it has soaked into the scratches. The final process is to give the whole thing a good polish with Lord Sheraton wax polish which contains linseed oil.

Depending on the condition you started with I think that this treatment is quite satisfactory. It doesn't appear new, but it looks like it has seen use but also has been cared for - a sort of "antique" look. Personally I think this is preferable to a brand new finish wherever possible. It doesn't work on the sort of set that has been left in a damp shed for the last 50 years, though!

I wouldn't worry about any Danish oil remnants if you decide to strip it in the end. The chemicals used, even if only meths should get rid of it.

Paul

chipp1968 · 18th Jul 2007, 11:08 pm

the only thing to worry about and to avoid in the firstplace , which can cause probems when re finishing , is anyhing with silicone in it , spray or wax

PaulR · 23rd Jul 2007, 12:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipp1968

the only thing to worry about and to avoid in the firstplace , which can cause probems when re finishing , is anyhing with silicone in it , spray or wax

Absolutely. Silicone polishes, whether for furniture or cars should be banned by law!! On the very rare occasions I change my car I spend the subsequent few weeks cleaning the horrible stuff off the interior.

Neil Purling · 24th Jul 2007, 6:28 am

Is it possible to give a shine to dull bakelite with beeswax ? I was going to melt some in Turpentine, but if turps is a no-no on bakelite i'll use something else.

Duke_Nukem · 24th Jul 2007, 8:37 am

Quote:

Is it possible to give a shine to dull bakelite with beeswax ?

After the usual cleaning etc of a rather tired looking TV12 cabinet, I used dark Lord Sheriden (sp?) polish on it and that worked really well.

Re other threads, anyone have some "before" and "after" pictures as this would give an idea of what is possible.

TTFN,
Jon

PaulR · 24th Jul 2007, 5:10 pm

Neil,

You don't need to go to the extreme of melting wax into turpentine al la Mrs Beeton! Jon is quite right about the Lord Sheraton. This is a proprietory brand of the same thing. I bought a very dull bakelite telephone a couple of years ago. I polished it with T-cut and finished it with the above polish. You can never quite get the original finish back (at least on telephones) because you are down to the filler, but it looks quite acceptable. Unfortunately I didn't take a before photograph.

I also maintain another phone which is in better, original, condition with Lord Sheraton wax and it always comes up very nicely. Far from being incompatible with wax-and-turpentine polish, Bakelite seems to thrive on it. Just don't use anything with silicone in it.

Paul

skodajag · 24th Jul 2007, 5:52 pm

"Jon is quite right about the Lord Sheraton. This is a proprietory brand of the same thing"

That's helpful, but I've just checked "Lord Sheraton" on the web and find they make several different products - which one exactly are you using Paul?
Jonathan

PaulR · 24th Jul 2007, 5:55 pm

This is Lord Sheraton Pure beeswax Balm. It is yellow and comes in a small glass bottle. It smells strongly of linseed oil

PaulR · 24th Jul 2007, 6:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulR

Balm.

Balsam - sorry!

Duke_Nukem · 25th Jul 2007, 12:41 pm

Quote:

... I've just checked "Lord Sheraton" on the web and find they make several different products

It is often found in supermarkets, certainly Sainsburys stock it. It comes in a small jar inside a three or four inch square box with a hole in the front so you can see the jar. There is I think 3 diff colours, the dark one is the one I used on Bakelite.

TTFN,
Jon

chipp1968 · 25th Jul 2007, 1:28 pm

I saw some today in local hardware shop , was natural colour . I dont think u have to use dark for bakalite necessarily though as it doesnt take on the colour as far as i know ,so dark or clear wouldnt matter much i dont think

chipp1968 · 25th Jul 2007, 1:31 pm

On a slight variation here but on the general theme . Using T cut will revive finishes prior to waxing , but you have to be carefull not to leave a white residue . I wouldonly advise using T cut on tight grained woods like mahogany walnut etc .Do not try it on OAK as the white will show up in the grain and you wont get it out again !

Mike Phelan · 25th Jul 2007, 4:56 pm

Limed oak, chipp - they pay a fortune for it.

On a similar note, be very wary on what you use on any open-grained woods.
I would only use rubbing compound, T-Cut et al on highly polished cabinets, like the continental ones.
As for Bakelite, be careful not to get it very wet.

Ghostuser · 15th Aug 2007, 9:27 am

Has anybody experience of filling deep scratches on bakelite? I am experimenting with clear french polish run into the scratch, but would be interested if there is a 'best' way of dealing with the problem.
Regards
Nigel

Radio_Dave · 15th Aug 2007, 9:40 am

Hi Nigel,

I use wax crayons, the type that children use. Use a soldering iron to melt them into the crack, level roughly with a blade and then do the final shaping by 'sanding' with pieces of card or paper.

Be carefull though because some crayons don't seem to be made of wax anymore and they just don't melt

David

Aerodyne · 15th Aug 2007, 10:02 am

Cabinetmaker's Beaumontage - wax sticks, various wood colours - can be used effectively for filling gouges in Bakelite, much as David suggests with children's crayons, the slight advantage being that the sticks are rather harder, are 'proper' wax and can be melted into the fault, but initial levelling is easier, I find, using a Stanley knife blade (running the extreme ends of it on strips of sticky tape to prevent further damage to the Bakelite). Sticks are obtainable for most DIY stores or Axminster on the web.

17th Jul 2007, 1:13 pm	#1
chipp1968 Rest in Peace Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Somerset, UK. Posts: 2,356	Re finishing , reviving cabinets The Danish oil thread made me think about some sets i want to restore . I have revived cabinets with t cut then wax polish before , but have heard that you can apply french polish or mayb even danish oil with a cloth to revive original finishes ? anyone have any experience ,I dont really want to wreck somthing by experimenting .TROUBLE is that alot of aged finishes becoe degraded opaic and dull , also crazed or the grain opens up making a typeof crazing , i wonder if applying somthing can re melt the existing finish to make an improvement I really prefer to keep original finishes if possible . Also lack of worshop and the right equipment means re finishing can be a problem wihout spraying especially on bigstuff

17th Jul 2007, 2:19 pm	#2
Radio_Dave Nonode Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 2,543	Re: Re finishing , reviving cabinets I have used Danish Oil to revive the cabinets on two of my Fenman II's and it has worked very well. The cabinets were T-Cutted and wiped over with whte spirit before applying the Danish oil. The scratches which went down to the wood regained a matching colour and some gloss, but it failed to fill in the depth of the damage. The scratches which are only in the finish, but which have a white appearance, respond very well indeed However, I can't say that I recommend the idea. I managed to get an acceptable result, but if it hadn't worked and then decided to strip the cabinet, I would have been faced with all sorts of problems where the oil penetrated only certain parts of the veneer. David

17th Jul 2007, 3:56 pm	#3
joe Rest in Peace Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Edgware, North London. Posts: 307	Re: Re finishing , reviving cabinets According to Andy Emmerson's excellent book "Electronic Classics" it is possible to use stuff called lacquer retarder mixed with cellulose thinners. I believe that the idea is that the thinners softens the dodgy surface and then it is allowed to dry out, slowly because of the retarder. I've never tried it mainly because I don't know where to get the stuff - except in 5 gallon drums from the manufacturer! Has any body else tried it? Joe

17th Jul 2007, 4:25 pm	#4
Mike Phelan Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 4,609	Re: Re finishing , reviving cabinets Our polishers at Thorn refurb depot always used French polish and filled the scratches with Beaumontage (wax crayons) after rubbing the veneered cabinets down with Trollull steel wool from 0 to 0000. This was in the late 1970s where veneered cabinets had a cellulose or 2-pack finish. They did make a very good job of them, as well. I think that were Danish Oil freely available then, they would have used it on the cabinets that did not have a high gloss with no raised grain - like most of the German radios of the 1950s. I have successfully used (but not on a radio) Rustin's plastic 2-pack coating - gives a deep glass-like finish with considerable depth. David If your FenMen do need refinishing, it's worth saying that the veneer on my cabinet came off easily with a hot-air gun, in single sheets. More of that anon when I have re-veneered it (American walnut). __________________ Mike.

18th Jul 2007, 9:20 pm	#5
PaulR Dekatron Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southport Lancashire, UK. Posts: 3,233	Re: Re finishing , reviving cabinets I have revived cabinets using Danish oil. I rub stain into the scratches and then when it has dried I apply the oil to the whole thing. This leaves a bit of a mess on the parts where the original finish is good so I cut the whole thing back with Brasso. The idea is that this removes the oil from the good parts but leaves it where it has soaked into the scratches. The final process is to give the whole thing a good polish with Lord Sheraton wax polish which contains linseed oil. Depending on the condition you started with I think that this treatment is quite satisfactory. It doesn't appear new, but it looks like it has seen use but also has been cared for - a sort of "antique" look. Personally I think this is preferable to a brand new finish wherever possible. It doesn't work on the sort of set that has been left in a damp shed for the last 50 years, though! I wouldn't worry about any Danish oil remnants if you decide to strip it in the end. The chemicals used, even if only meths should get rid of it. Paul

18th Jul 2007, 11:08 pm	#6
chipp1968 Rest in Peace Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Somerset, UK. Posts: 2,356	Re: Re finishing , reviving cabinets the only thing to worry about and to avoid in the firstplace , which can cause probems when re finishing , is anyhing with silicone in it , spray or wax

24th Jul 2007, 6:28 am	#8
Neil Purling Nonode Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 2,087	Re: Re finishing , reviving cabinets Is it possible to give a shine to dull bakelite with beeswax ? I was going to melt some in Turpentine, but if turps is a no-no on bakelite i'll use something else.

24th Jul 2007, 5:10 pm	#10
PaulR Dekatron Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southport Lancashire, UK. Posts: 3,233	Re: Re finishing , reviving cabinets Neil, You don't need to go to the extreme of melting wax into turpentine al la Mrs Beeton! Jon is quite right about the Lord Sheraton. This is a proprietory brand of the same thing. I bought a very dull bakelite telephone a couple of years ago. I polished it with T-cut and finished it with the above polish. You can never quite get the original finish back (at least on telephones) because you are down to the filler, but it looks quite acceptable. Unfortunately I didn't take a before photograph. I also maintain another phone which is in better, original, condition with Lord Sheraton wax and it always comes up very nicely. Far from being incompatible with wax-and-turpentine polish, Bakelite seems to thrive on it. Just don't use anything with silicone in it. Paul

24th Jul 2007, 5:52 pm	#11
skodajag Pentode Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Heathfield, East Sussex, UK, Posts: 227	Re: Re finishing , reviving cabinets "Jon is quite right about the Lord Sheraton. This is a proprietory brand of the same thing" That's helpful, but I've just checked "Lord Sheraton" on the web and find they make several different products - which one exactly are you using Paul? Jonathan

24th Jul 2007, 5:55 pm	#12
PaulR Dekatron Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southport Lancashire, UK. Posts: 3,233	Re: Re finishing , reviving cabinets This is Lord Sheraton Pure beeswax Balm. It is yellow and comes in a small glass bottle. It smells strongly of linseed oil

25th Jul 2007, 1:28 pm	#15
chipp1968 Rest in Peace Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Somerset, UK. Posts: 2,356	Re: Re finishing , reviving cabinets I saw some today in local hardware shop , was natural colour . I dont think u have to use dark for bakalite necessarily though as it doesnt take on the colour as far as i know ,so dark or clear wouldnt matter much i dont think

25th Jul 2007, 1:31 pm	#16
chipp1968 Rest in Peace Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Somerset, UK. Posts: 2,356	Re: Re finishing , reviving cabinets On a slight variation here but on the general theme . Using T cut will revive finishes prior to waxing , but you have to be carefull not to leave a white residue . I wouldonly advise using T cut on tight grained woods like mahogany walnut etc .Do not try it on OAK as the white will show up in the grain and you wont get it out again !

25th Jul 2007, 4:56 pm	#17
Mike Phelan Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 4,609	Re: Re finishing , reviving cabinets Limed oak, chipp - they pay a fortune for it. On a similar note, be very wary on what you use on any open-grained woods. I would only use rubbing compound, T-Cut et al on highly polished cabinets, like the continental ones. As for Bakelite, be careful not to get it very wet. __________________ Mike.

15th Aug 2007, 9:27 am	#18
Ghostuser Pentode Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Alton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 137	Re: Re finishing , reviving cabinets Has anybody experience of filling deep scratches on bakelite? I am experimenting with clear french polish run into the scratch, but would be interested if there is a 'best' way of dealing with the problem. Regards Nigel

15th Aug 2007, 9:40 am	#19
Radio_Dave Nonode Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 2,543	Re: Re finishing , reviving cabinets Hi Nigel, I use wax crayons, the type that children use. Use a soldering iron to melt them into the crack, level roughly with a blade and then do the final shaping by 'sanding' with pieces of card or paper. Be carefull though because some crayons don't seem to be made of wax anymore and they just don't melt David

15th Aug 2007, 10:02 am	#20
Aerodyne Octode Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hampton Vale, Peterborough, UK. Posts: 1,698	Re: Re finishing , reviving cabinets Cabinetmaker's Beaumontage - wax sticks, various wood colours - can be used effectively for filling gouges in Bakelite, much as David suggests with children's crayons, the slight advantage being that the sticks are rather harder, are 'proper' wax and can be melted into the fault, but initial levelling is easier, I find, using a Stanley knife blade (running the extreme ends of it on strips of sticky tape to prevent further damage to the Bakelite). Sticks are obtainable for most DIY stores or Axminster on the web.