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Old 21st Jan 2023, 1:03 pm   #1
Panrock
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Default Oxford on 405-lines

Can anyone point to a service area map for the 405-line Beckley (Oxford) relay transmitter on Channel 2?

Thanks,

Steve
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 1:10 pm   #2
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Default Re: Oxford on 405-lines

I don't have a map, but the area served was really just the Oxford urban area, which is in a valley. Before Beckley most people got their BBC signal all the way from Alexandra Palace / Crystal Palace. ITV service was even worse, with large band III arrays pointing in all directions. Oxford never got a 405 relay for ITV, partly because the ITV companies couldn't agree who was responsible for it.
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 1:25 pm   #3
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Default Re: Oxford on 405-lines

Thanks Paul.

It's a map I'd be particularly interested to see. Maybe from an old BBC Handbook/Yearbook?

It was also horizontally polarised. Do any large 'droop' aerials still survive in the Oxford area?

Steve
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 1:51 pm   #4
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Default Re: Oxford on 405-lines

There are many copies of past BBC handbooks on this site (as you probably know). This link gives info on the transmitter on page 111 but I suspect you are after far greater detail with regards coverage.

https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/BBC...-Book-1966.pdf
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 1:57 pm   #5
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Default Re: Oxford on 405-lines

I’m pretty sure I have a 1960s BBC Engineering Information Department coverage map for the Oxford 405/VHF channel 2 transmitter in my loft. I used to live in its coverage area (near Witney). Dreadful co-channel during the summer Sporadic E openings!

We had a horizontal “H” aerial mounted on a chimney, together with an eight element Band 3 for Lichfield, channel 8 (V), before Membury channel 12 (H) went on air.

If you don’t get a better offer / other immediate help, I’ll look it out when I’m next in my loft.
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 2:14 pm   #6
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Default Re: Oxford on 405-lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panrock View Post
It was also horizontally polarised. Do any large 'droop' aerials still survive in the Oxford area?
There's a horizontal dipole on Beckley near me. It may be band II, but it's on the same mast as a knackered VP band III array pointing SE towards London so is probably band I.

Most people had paid for expensive aerials on CP and were reluctant to pay again for a new one on Beckley, particularly as a good UHF service was planned.
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 2:42 pm   #7
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Default Re: Oxford on 405-lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by red16v View Post
There are many copies of past BBC handbooks on this site (as you probably know). This link gives info on the transmitter on page 111 but I suspect you are after far greater detail with regards coverage.

https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/BBC...-Book-1966.pdf
That's indeed of some use. The radius of the service area looks to be about 15 miles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzlevision View Post
If you don’t get a better offer / other immediate help, I’ll look it out when I’m next in my loft.
Much obliged! I may well take you up on that kind offer. Let's see what turns up.

Thanks to all.

Steve
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 2:54 pm   #8
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Default Re: Oxford on 405-lines

Last time I was in Binsey Lane (admittedly about fifteen years ago) there was a house at the urban end with a nice collection of VHF Band II and III aerials. I don't know whether they are still there, as it over ten years since I last had any connection with Oxford.
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 3:01 pm   #9
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Default Re: Oxford on 405-lines

There are still quite a few 405 era aerials surviving in the Oxford area. The reception difficulties meant they had to be very substantial, and it was a big job to take them down, so they were just left in place until they fell down. Even where the aerials themselves have been removed, there is often still a thick heavy duty pole lashed to the chimney, nowadays with a tiny UHF aerial perched on top.
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 3:33 pm   #10
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Default Re: Oxford on 405-lines

I used to spend a lot of time in the Mansfield Road/South Parks Road area of Oxford where I had a number of clients; there were still some old horizontal Band-I/III antennas to be seen in the area.

A quick bit of Google Street View reveals this one at the junction of Mansfield Road and Holywell Street. What the significance is of the ends of the BI antenna being bent back, I don't know. Styling?
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 3:52 pm   #11
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Default Re: Oxford on 405-lines

It could be something to do with directionality. The band III aerial appears to be on Membury which would make Beckley off beam for a simple dipole with that alignment.

Membury was expected to provide a significantly improved ITV service for the Oxford area, but the local topography resulted in disappointing coverage.
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 4:10 pm   #12
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Default Re: Oxford on 405-lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
It could be something to do with directionality. The band III aerial appears to be on Membury which would make Beckley off beam for a simple dipole with that alignment.
Ah, yes I guess bending the ends back might improve 'off the side' reception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
Membury was expected to provide a significantly improved ITV service for the Oxford area, but the local topography resulted in disappointing coverage.
Membury also had the problem that it was a relay of Lichfield, so Midlands ITV. Which was not always popular with those of us who were more likely to have interests in London/the Home Counties than in the likes of Derby or Nottingham. Certainly when I was living in Wallingford/Ewelme/Nuffield/Henley back in the 80s we weren't impressed by ITV Midlands from Membury.

Doing the Street View thing along Holywell Street there are several other horizontally-polarised BI/III antennas still extant, along with a couple of BI-only dipoles but the angle of the Street View camera coupled with the narrowness of the street and the height of the buildings means I can't extract decent imagery. Maybe next time I'm in the area I will take my DSLR and long-lens?
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 4:23 pm   #13
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Default Re: Oxford on 405-lines

Oxfordshire was traditionally considered a midlands county until it acquired a big chunk of Berkshire in 1974. The South Midlands doesn't really fit into any of the standard TV regions. When Central took over the ATV franchise in the 80s they introduced a policy of sub-regions with South Central operating semi independently for Gloucestershire and Oxfordshire from studios in Abingdon. Twenty years of cost cutting and rationalisation mean that this is long gone, and Beckley is allocated to Meridian / BBC South. This means that people in Oxford, Banbury and Milton Keynes get to see lots of fascinating news stories about yachting regattas and cruise ship terminals, despite being about as far from the coast as it's possible to be in England.
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Old 22nd Jan 2023, 5:20 pm   #14
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Default Re: Oxford on 405-lines

Hello,

Well, I have been in my (cold) loft and found the 1965 Oxford ch2 VHF/405 tx coverage map and attach a photo.

If you'd like a higher resolution copy, I'll need your email address, via a PM.
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Old 22nd Jan 2023, 5:42 pm   #15
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Default Re: Oxford on 405-lines

Interesting that it (just) covered Wallingford; I used to live there [well, Crowmarsh Gifford] and don't remember seeing any Band-I antennas aimed towards Oxford; everyone pointed due East down the Thames valley to London.
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Old 22nd Jan 2023, 5:57 pm   #16
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Default Re: Oxford on 405-lines

Wallingford / Crowmarsh would have been right on the fringe, so CP probably provided a better signal there. Even in Oxford lots of people continued to use CP because they didn't want to pay for an aerial rigger to visit.
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Old 22nd Jan 2023, 6:17 pm   #17
Dave Moll
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Default Re: Oxford on 405-lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzlevision View Post
If you'd like a higher resolution copy, I'll need your email address, via a PM.
Any chance of posting it as a PDF?
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Old 22nd Jan 2023, 7:32 pm   #18
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Default Re: Oxford on 405-lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzlevision View Post
Hello,

Well, I have been in my (cold) loft and found the 1965 Oxford ch2 VHF/405 tx coverage map and attach a photo.

If you'd like a higher resolution copy, I'll need your email address, via a PM.
Thanks. I'll drop you a PM.

Interesting how an e.r.p. of 640 watts could deliver a good strong signal at 10 miles and 'fringe' reception at 20 miles. Is there information available on the height of the mast?

Steve
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Old 22nd Jan 2023, 7:42 pm   #19
paulsherwin
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Default Re: Oxford on 405-lines

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford...itting_station
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Old 22nd Jan 2023, 7:44 pm   #20
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Default Re: Oxford on 405-lines

Great! Thanks Paul.

Steve
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