Defiant Model 50 (R209) - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Jameseybhoy · 25th May 2018, 8:07 pm

Decided on a project for myself to get my mum’s old record player a model 50 Defiant working. It used to work when I was a kid but it’s been up their loft for 30 odd years.
Any advice, information or pointers would be great or even further info would be much appreciated.
I’m new to this type of thing but hope to play my old mono records on it.

Cheers.

Station X · 25th May 2018, 8:18 pm

Hello and welcome to the forums.

I suggest you start by reading this thread:-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=75401

Edward Huggins · 25th May 2018, 8:35 pm

Can the OP post a photo of the player please? I can't seem to search out this Model. Actually, the DEFIANT branded players were quite good, often better than the Dansettes of the time.

Jameseybhoy · 25th May 2018, 10:28 pm

I’ll try

I’ve tried to post. Don’t know if it worked. Lol

Edward Huggins · 25th May 2018, 11:12 pm

Ah, and I see it now. It has a good 2 stage amplifier. The BSR UA8 autochanger is missing its platter mat. I see it is fitted with a BSR TC8M cartridge which is ideal for playing Mono LPs, but definately not for Stereo LPs. Have you run this up, is it working? When not in use, you must set the speed control to "N". You can make good the missing brass disc from the LHS control knob with gold foil from a coffee jar seal.

Jameseybhoy · 25th May 2018, 11:54 pm

A BSR UA8 turntable. Are these complicated bits of kit?

AC/HL · 26th May 2018, 1:26 am

Post four from the link in post 2 will give you an idea. Most problems will be down to dried grease, but first things first.

What experience do you have of working on mains powered equipment, and do you have a test meter of some sort?
Have you tried to operate the player yet, there are a few things to check before it is switched on for more than a minute or two.

dave walsh · 26th May 2018, 2:06 am

You might imagine that a thread called "Reviving your old Record Player" would be an immediate popular hit but I suppose it's all a bit time consuming

Dave W

Jameseybhoy · 26th May 2018, 6:21 am

I have no experience Bill. I don’t own a multi meter either. I found a you tube video of someone servicing a UA-8.

I quickly tried it and no power.

This is going to be fun!

AC/HL · 26th May 2018, 9:23 am

Not so much fun as a learning curve, quite steep in places!
There's unlikely to be anything insurmountable, but it's nothing like mending a bike, for instance. If you're the practical type we can talk you through it, but be aware that it may end up costing more than buying a working player if one part in particular is faulty, but getting a result is a good feeling.
You'll need at least a neon screwdriver for starters, but a simple multimeter won't cost much either.

Jameseybhoy · 26th May 2018, 12:36 pm

I’m practical to the extent where DIY is concerned and I work as a fabricator. But not much experience of electrics apart from basic wiring jobs. But willing to give it a try. Looking at the prices of these players. It’s apparent that if there’s a few few things required it’ll cost me more to fix it but I’m willing to try and thanks for the replies and advice so far. I’ll get onto a neon screwdriver and a multi meter on pay day

Cheers

Edward Huggins · 26th May 2018, 1:58 pm

If all you want to do is play old Mono LP's/45's, and if the cartridge is still working, then you will already have saved yourself £35-40. You will also need to check if the amplifier uses a mains isolating transformer, if so it will be far safer for you to work on. You should see two transformers, one bigger than the other. If not, then don't touch and advise us soonest!

AC/HL · 26th May 2018, 7:36 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jameseybhoy

I’m practical to the extent where DIY is concerned and I work as a fabricator. But not much experience of electrics apart from basic wiring jobs.

That'a a good starting point, you'll be aware of basic electrical safety then, and what not to touch when the covers are off! (no names, no pack drill, but you may or may not be surprised at how many newcomers aren't)
As Edward says, the cartridge is one of the main worries with these, but let's get some life in it first. We will need a photo or two to get started. One of the player with the lid open, and then as many as needed to illustrate the internal gubbins.

Jameseybhoy · 26th May 2018, 8:19 pm

Bill, I appreciate the help and advice so far, and any going forward.

Changed the fuse, no power. I’m going to have to get myself a multi metre and neon screwdriver to see what’s what...

AC/HL · 26th May 2018, 8:36 pm

We need the photos, but try unplugging it and switching on and off a few times. Does the switch make a nice clean clicking sound?

Jameseybhoy · 26th May 2018, 9:30 pm

Yeah switch sounds like it’s clicking off fine. The other buttons seem to sound ok, the spring mechanisms all seem to work ok.

Jameseybhoy · 26th May 2018, 10:11 pm

The valves are black at the ends? Possibly blown?

Station X · 26th May 2018, 10:14 pm

Label says it's Model R209.

You're in luck for service data:-

https://www.service-data.com/product...80/1770/a11280

EDIT.

This is NOT a live chassis player.

If you've experience of wiring up simple circuits then you should have little difficulty in getting the motor to run and the valve heaters to light up. Blackening is not a sign of valve failure.

Jameseybhoy · 26th May 2018, 10:21 pm

Cheers Graham.

Station X · 26th May 2018, 10:25 pm

Circuit extract for the benefit of anyone following this thread.

25th May 2018, 8:07 pm	#1
Jameseybhoy Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Dunfermline, Fife, UK. Posts: 17	Defiant Model 50 (R209) Decided on a project for myself to get my mum’s old record player a model 50 Defiant working. It used to work when I was a kid but it’s been up their loft for 30 odd years. Any advice, information or pointers would be great or even further info would be much appreciated. I’m new to this type of thing but hope to play my old mono records on it. Cheers.

25th May 2018, 8:18 pm	#2
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Defiant Model 50 Hello and welcome to the forums. I suggest you start by reading this thread:- https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=75401 __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

25th May 2018, 8:35 pm	#3
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: Defiant Model 50 Can the OP post a photo of the player please? I can't seem to search out this Model. Actually, the DEFIANT branded players were quite good, often better than the Dansettes of the time. __________________ Edward.

25th May 2018, 10:28 pm	#4
Jameseybhoy Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Dunfermline, Fife, UK. Posts: 17	I’ll try I’ve tried to post. Don’t know if it worked. Lol Attached Thumbnails

25th May 2018, 11:12 pm	#5
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: Defiant Model 50 Ah, and I see it now. It has a good 2 stage amplifier. The BSR UA8 autochanger is missing its platter mat. I see it is fitted with a BSR TC8M cartridge which is ideal for playing Mono LPs, but definately not for Stereo LPs. Have you run this up, is it working? When not in use, you must set the speed control to "N". You can make good the missing brass disc from the LHS control knob with gold foil from a coffee jar seal. __________________ Edward.

25th May 2018, 11:54 pm	#6
Jameseybhoy Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Dunfermline, Fife, UK. Posts: 17	Re: Defiant Model 50 A BSR UA8 turntable. Are these complicated bits of kit?

26th May 2018, 1:26 am	#7
AC/HL Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 9,642	Re: Defiant Model 50 Post four from the link in post 2 will give you an idea. Most problems will be down to dried grease, but first things first. What experience do you have of working on mains powered equipment, and do you have a test meter of some sort? Have you tried to operate the player yet, there are a few things to check before it is switched on for more than a minute or two.

26th May 2018, 2:06 am	#8
dave walsh Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex. Posts: 5,817	Re: Defiant Model 50 You might imagine that a thread called "Reviving your old Record Player" would be an immediate popular hit but I suppose it's all a bit time consuming Dave W Last edited by dave walsh; 26th May 2018 at 2:14 am.

26th May 2018, 6:21 am	#9
Jameseybhoy Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Dunfermline, Fife, UK. Posts: 17	Re: Defiant Model 50 I have no experience Bill. I don’t own a multi meter either. I found a you tube video of someone servicing a UA-8. I quickly tried it and no power. This is going to be fun!

26th May 2018, 9:23 am	#10
AC/HL Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 9,642	Re: Defiant Model 50 Not so much fun as a learning curve, quite steep in places! There's unlikely to be anything insurmountable, but it's nothing like mending a bike, for instance. If you're the practical type we can talk you through it, but be aware that it may end up costing more than buying a working player if one part in particular is faulty, but getting a result is a good feeling. You'll need at least a neon screwdriver for starters, but a simple multimeter won't cost much either.

26th May 2018, 12:36 pm	#11
Jameseybhoy Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Dunfermline, Fife, UK. Posts: 17	Re: Defiant Model 50 I’m practical to the extent where DIY is concerned and I work as a fabricator. But not much experience of electrics apart from basic wiring jobs. But willing to give it a try. Looking at the prices of these players. It’s apparent that if there’s a few few things required it’ll cost me more to fix it but I’m willing to try and thanks for the replies and advice so far. I’ll get onto a neon screwdriver and a multi meter on pay day Cheers

26th May 2018, 1:58 pm	#12
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: Defiant Model 50 If all you want to do is play old Mono LP's/45's, and if the cartridge is still working, then you will already have saved yourself £35-40. You will also need to check if the amplifier uses a mains isolating transformer, if so it will be far safer for you to work on. You should see two transformers, one bigger than the other. If not, then don't touch and advise us soonest! __________________ Edward.

26th May 2018, 8:19 pm	#14
Jameseybhoy Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Dunfermline, Fife, UK. Posts: 17	Re: Defiant Model 50 Bill, I appreciate the help and advice so far, and any going forward. Changed the fuse, no power. I’m going to have to get myself a multi metre and neon screwdriver to see what’s what...

26th May 2018, 8:36 pm	#15
AC/HL Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 9,642	Re: Defiant Model 50 We need the photos, but try unplugging it and switching on and off a few times. Does the switch make a nice clean clicking sound?

26th May 2018, 9:30 pm	#16
Jameseybhoy Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Dunfermline, Fife, UK. Posts: 17	Re: Defiant Model 50 Yeah switch sounds like it’s clicking off fine. The other buttons seem to sound ok, the spring mechanisms all seem to work ok.

26th May 2018, 10:11 pm	#17
Jameseybhoy Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Dunfermline, Fife, UK. Posts: 17	Re: Defiant Model 50 The valves are black at the ends? Possibly blown? Attached Thumbnails

26th May 2018, 10:14 pm	#18
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Defiant Model 50 Label says it's Model R209. You're in luck for service data:- https://www.service-data.com/product...80/1770/a11280 EDIT. This is NOT a live chassis player. If you've experience of wiring up simple circuits then you should have little difficulty in getting the motor to run and the valve heaters to light up. Blackening is not a sign of valve failure. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

26th May 2018, 10:21 pm	#19
Jameseybhoy Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Dunfermline, Fife, UK. Posts: 17	Re: Defiant Model 50 Cheers Graham.

26th May 2018, 10:25 pm	#20
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Defiant Model 50 Circuit extract for the benefit of anyone following this thread. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.