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Old 16th Mar 2022, 11:32 pm   #61
samjmann
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Default Re: My time at Rank Bush Murphy

I worked for a RBM dealer in the 70's, the above brings back so many memories. One horror story stood out. You could interchange Z718, T20, T22, T26 signal panels, as they shared the same size and plug patterns. But the RGB amp supply was quite different...

One engineer in a blind rush fitted a T26 signal pcb to a Z718 chassis. The RGB output stages on the Z718 ran at 300V. The T26 at 150v. So the board was slowly cooked. It came in with the RGB stages burnt beyond repair, the pcb was jet black.

Fortunately no one was hurt, and the set was a rental so it got sorted out internally. But I never understood why the pcb's could be interchanged to such different chassis.

It must be 30 years since I last worked on so, my figures may be out a bit

The T24 was another oddity. All the Toshiba bits ran cool and never failed. The European bits all went wrong. User controls and CRT, all European... No wonder the Japs wiped out TV building in the UK. Admittedly all we saw was a basic 20" for rental, but this was quite depressing.

My Dad told me about 1982 time of a film made for TV of the Toshiba merger with RBM. I never saw it then, but perhaps someone has posted it on YouTube.

SJM
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 3:38 pm   #62
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Default Re: My time at Rank Bush Murphy

Most of the T24s we saw (and they weren't anywhere near as many as the T22s!) had Toshiba tubes fitted and, guess what, they never failed. The on/off switch, buttons and tuner were a different story. As I said earlier, the only Toshiba part to fail for us was the 36k resistor feeding the sandcastle pulse to the decoder going high in value which became something of a stock fault.

Going back to the OP, I am surprised the T20 series was developed by a different team to the Z718. The chassis, frame timebase and, as said above, the IF/decoder were all very similar. It's like a manager gave the team a Z718 and asked them to make it work a 20AX tube.

And what's with the Z prefix? A680, 774, 816, 823 - then the Z arrives, just for the 718 and Z179. Perhaps should have been Z719 - would have made more sense.
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 4:12 pm   #63
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Default Re: My time at Rank Bush Murphy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsh Anorak View Post

And what's with the Z prefix? A680, 774, 816, 823 - then the Z arrives, just for the 718 and Z179. Perhaps should have been Z719 - would have made more sense.
Probably at a time when manufactures liked to put a Z or X in model numbers to make it sound 'modern' and the latest technology, even more so with an LED on it,

Last edited by Cobaltblue; 17th Mar 2022 at 4:20 pm. Reason: Fixed Broken quotes
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 4:13 pm   #64
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Default Re: My time at Rank Bush Murphy

The tuner in the first production C2290/24E Toshiba used the Rank tuner but was soon replaced by a Toshiba unit. I can't remember replacing the ON/OFF switch. I guess it was similar to the one fitted in the Dixons own brand model, I can't remember the name, with a Toshiba 'kit' chassis fitted from a much earlier model. I certainly replaced a lot of those! John.
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 4:16 pm   #65
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Default Re: My time at Rank Bush Murphy

Quote:
Originally Posted by stacman View Post
And what's with the Z prefix? A680, 774, 816, 823 - then the Z arrives, just for the 718 and Z179. Perhaps should have been Z719 - would have made more sense./QUOTE

Probably at a time when manufactures liked to put a Z or X in model numbers to make it sound 'modern' and the latest technology, even more so with an LED on it,
More broken quotes I will fix it please preview before posting

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Old 17th Mar 2022, 6:06 pm   #66
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Default Re: My time at Rank Bush Murphy

CONTEC That was the brand with the TOSHIBA kit chassis. Very reliable. I think RBM used the SABA chassis in their first colour portables. Not bad but it seemed to be plagued with shorting diodes. J.
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 8:02 pm   #67
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Default Re: My time at Rank Bush Murphy

Wasn't there a set badged Triumph that was the same as the T24?
I found one of those Contec portables near the skip at the house clearance place that I have had a few sets from, the on off switch was knackered on that set, it wouldn't latch. I wish I had saved it now but in my defence it had got very wet!
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 8:45 pm   #68
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Default Re: My time at Rank Bush Murphy

Yes Rich. Triumph was the name used by Curry's rentals back in the 80's. I'd never heard of them until Visionhire bought Curry's rentals out around 1985. All of a sudden we had a deluge of Triumphs and Grundigs coming in off rental as well as all the extra other work we'd just taken on as Serviscope. I believe there were some T24's amongst them. Also lots of Orions badged Triumph too.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 11:48 am   #69
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Default Re: My time at Rank Bush Murphy

Glyn wrote:
Quote:
It's like a manager gave the team a Z718 and asked them to make it work a 20AX tube.
You are probably not wrong. The new development team would have leaned on previous models as a starting base.

Quote:
And what's with the Z prefix? A640, 774, 816, 823 - then the Z arrives, just for the 718 and Z179.
Yeah, I could never get to the bottom of the prefix letter, in fact the whole project numbering sequence never seemed to follow any logical order . The 'Z' prefix was used for a lot of audio projects and subassemblies.
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Old 20th Mar 2022, 12:14 pm   #70
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Default Re: My time at Rank Bush Murphy

I seem to recall that RBM marketed a 110 degree 26" Delta gun receiver possibly of German origin. I only came across a single example but I no doubt have the manual due to RBM forwarding a manual for every new release together with a copy of 'Service Skill' It will take too long to find it! John
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Old 20th Mar 2022, 3:20 pm   #71
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Default Re: My time at Rank Bush Murphy

I think that was the Z179. I also thought it was imported until I looked inside and saw an SL901 and SL918, and the manual confirmed it was a British TV. Hinge down PCB looking fairly conventional apart from the decoder. Used an A66-140X 110 degree CRT.
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Old 21st Mar 2022, 2:18 pm   #72
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Default Re: My time at Rank Bush Murphy

I did not like Z718 as field eng lots of complaints regarding not starting
from cold, fault did not show on visits . I seem to remember that this was due line osc line driver stage start up circuit .


I acquired a T24 with a triumph badge on this one was BER by our work shop staff
as it had seen a very large voltage going in via the aerial lead the pc was blown to bits, having fitted jumper leads across all burnt up pc and fitting
a new aerial socket set work fo the next 8 years till he crt went low. what a great set I loved them
Derrick
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Old 23rd Mar 2022, 1:08 pm   #73
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Thanks Glyn. I thought a 110 degree delta existed but they were very rare. All that tooling up for a very small production run. John.
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Old 23rd Mar 2022, 2:05 pm   #74
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Default Re: My time at Rank Bush Murphy

The Pye 731 series used a 110 degree delta gun tube. All that extra raster correction with it's effect on reliability and cost just to shave an inch off the depth of a set! Later on Pye realised buyers weren't bothered about slimline, just price, so they brought out the 725 with a 90 degree tube, simpler chassis less cost and (a bit) more reliable. Wasn't the G9 also 110 degree delta? Only saw a few all 26" sets I don't know if they made a 22" ?
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Old 23rd Mar 2022, 3:06 pm   #75
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Default Re: My time at Rank Bush Murphy

Yes - they Pye 731 drove a 26" 110 degree tube and, unusually, a 22" 110 degree as well. As you say, the 725 90 degree chassis was much better, though the bar was set pretty low...

The G9 used the 110 degree delta CRT, only 26" (A66 140X) as far as I remember.
110 degree sets using this CRT were much more common on mainland Europe, with sets such as the B&O 3400, Philips K80, Tandberg CTV2, Grundig 5010 and Telefunken 711 to name just a few that made it over here (the latter I wish hadn't!).

The Z179 even looked German which I assume was RBM's intention. In fact RBM were conspicuous by their absence in the 26" stakes - did they ever do one in the A823 or T20 series? If they did, I've never seen one - the old 25" sets were the largest I saw besides the Z179.
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Old 23rd Mar 2022, 4:04 pm   #76
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Default Re: My time at Rank Bush Murphy

Now you come to mention it I can't remember a 26" A823 or T20 either . 25 " early A823 yes, they must have made one though as the Zarach Tv mentioned in the other thread seems to have used a 26" A823 as the donor set. Maybe they were made but didn't sell well.
Another anomaly that springs to mind was the Ferguson TX stereo TX10 or 100 Thorn never made a 26" set for retail, only for the rental outlets badged as Baird or DER.
When I think about it in the 70s and early 80s we didn't sell that many 26" sets compared to 20 and 22". The thirst for bigger screens seems to have come along a bit later on. That said most of our customers didn't have large houses with large rooms!
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Old 23rd Mar 2022, 5:31 pm   #77
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Default Re: My time at Rank Bush Murphy

These cards from the 1-1-70 service manual show that there was a 26" version made and a number with the later varicap tuner version.

I had never thought about it but I can't ever remember seeing one! I had a 26" version of the Z718 complete with Prestel terminal. It worked quite well but unfortunately like so many other interesting receivers were skipped when I closed the shop in 2003.
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Old 23rd Mar 2022, 9:15 pm   #78
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Default Re: My time at Rank Bush Murphy

There were quite a few 26 models fitted with the A823 chassis , i owned a 26" murphy with folding doors years ago.
It would be interesting to here if dave can tell us any think about the A823 chassis ?

Robin
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Old 23rd Mar 2022, 9:30 pm   #79
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Default Re: My time at Rank Bush Murphy

Have to say i have really enjoyed this thread, very interesting. Here is a picture of my 26" Bush A823
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Old 23rd Mar 2022, 10:00 pm   #80
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Default Re: My time at Rank Bush Murphy

I've got a Bush CTV197C and a Murphy CV2612C and a 26" Z718. and several years back i did have a 26" T22 that i broke up unfortunately.

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