Pye Black Box G63 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Keith · 17th Aug 2022, 8:51 pm

I'm restoring the above for a friend for whom it has great sentimental value. I've sorted the amplifier with new electrolytics and polyester capacitors in all critical positions. Sinewave now looks good on a scope up to full output. The performance is poor, however, with heavy distortion and one channel well down so I'm guessing a replacement cartridge is called for. The deck is a Garrard AT6 fitted with a Sonotone 8T cartridge. What would be a good replacement for this and where would I find such a thing these days.

Also, although the deck seems OK on Manual, it stops on Auto as soon as the record drops. Is this likely to be fixable by cleaning/ re-greasing?

Any advice appreciated.

Keith

slidertogrid · 17th Aug 2022, 9:40 pm

I think you can replace the cartridge with a medium output stereo one ? The deck will want the old grease cleaning out and re lubricating. The intermediate drive wheel may need resurfacing but check it for small radial cracks around the drive surface because if it's cracked it won't resurface very well.
When you have the cam off check the peg that runs in the track of the cam is free to rotate as they are often seized and the changer will work like that but will slow down a lot when changing as the peg will slide in the track rather than rotate as it traverses the track.
Rich

Keith · 18th Aug 2022, 9:01 am

Hi Rich,

Thanks for the reply. Yes it is the stereo version that I need. I guess that if I Google for Sonotone 8T replacement I might find something.

OK on the deck refurbishment. I haven't lifted the platter yet so don't know what I'll find under there. I'll post back if I get stuck.

Keith

Edward Huggins · 18th Aug 2022, 9:48 am

You'll not find a direct replacement for a Sonotone 8T. Look for a Sonotone 9TA/HC - or BSR SC11M or BSR SC12H. All are Stereo and will load the amplifier well as it was designed to have good gain. Also these will all easily fit the Garrard's headshell.

Nickthedentist · 20th Aug 2022, 4:34 pm

I’d forget the Sonotone 9TA personally as most have failed over the 50 years since they were last produced. This is a shame because they were one of the best ceramic cartridges in ever made.

Keith · 23rd Aug 2022, 4:24 pm

Thank you all for your replies. I bought a "generic" turnover cartridge which fitted OK after a bit of fettling. Plenty of output from the amplifiers but it seemed lacking in bass so I paralleled the 10nF coupling capacitors from the first stages with 47nF and this improved things considerably. Bass cut control certainly not required though.

Had problems with the autochanger sticking (even after cleaning/regreasing cam, etc). Following advice on another thread I re-surfaced the idler wheel and abraded the inner surface of the platter drum in a vertical direction. This gave enough grip to operate all autochanger functions.

On the whole not bad performance for a ceramic cartridge and single cone speakers in a non-acoustically designed cabinet.

Edward Huggins · 23rd Aug 2022, 4:52 pm

We wanted to use our Pye subsidiary comapny R&A to produce twin-cone 8" drivers for this, but the the planned production volume of the G63 was not high enough to justify this. We could have used ELAC's excellent 8" twin-cone unit, but of course they were not an in-house company. However, with the lid closed and the fairly wide spacing of the drivers in that long-low cabinet the sound, albeit undamped, was deemed adequate.

17th Aug 2022, 8:51 pm	#1
Keith Heptode Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire, UK. Posts: 693	Pye Black Box G63 I'm restoring the above for a friend for whom it has great sentimental value. I've sorted the amplifier with new electrolytics and polyester capacitors in all critical positions. Sinewave now looks good on a scope up to full output. The performance is poor, however, with heavy distortion and one channel well down so I'm guessing a replacement cartridge is called for. The deck is a Garrard AT6 fitted with a Sonotone 8T cartridge. What would be a good replacement for this and where would I find such a thing these days. Also, although the deck seems OK on Manual, it stops on Auto as soon as the record drops. Is this likely to be fixable by cleaning/ re-greasing? Any advice appreciated. Keith Attached Thumbnails __________________ Keith Yates - G3XGW VMARS & BVWS member http://www.tibblestone.com/oldradios/Old_Radios.htm

17th Aug 2022, 9:40 pm	#2
slidertogrid Octode Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK. Posts: 1,898	Re: Pye Black Box G63 I think you can replace the cartridge with a medium output stereo one ? The deck will want the old grease cleaning out and re lubricating. The intermediate drive wheel may need resurfacing but check it for small radial cracks around the drive surface because if it's cracked it won't resurface very well. When you have the cam off check the peg that runs in the track of the cam is free to rotate as they are often seized and the changer will work like that but will slow down a lot when changing as the peg will slide in the track rather than rotate as it traverses the track. Rich

18th Aug 2022, 9:01 am	#3
Keith Heptode Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire, UK. Posts: 693	Re: Pye Black Box G63 Hi Rich, Thanks for the reply. Yes it is the stereo version that I need. I guess that if I Google for Sonotone 8T replacement I might find something. OK on the deck refurbishment. I haven't lifted the platter yet so don't know what I'll find under there. I'll post back if I get stuck. Keith __________________ Keith Yates - G3XGW VMARS & BVWS member http://www.tibblestone.com/oldradios/Old_Radios.htm

18th Aug 2022, 9:48 am	#4
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,324	Re: Pye Black Box G63 You'll not find a direct replacement for a Sonotone 8T. Look for a Sonotone 9TA/HC - or BSR SC11M or BSR SC12H. All are Stereo and will load the amplifier well as it was designed to have good gain. Also these will all easily fit the Garrard's headshell. __________________ Edward.

20th Aug 2022, 4:34 pm	#5
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,837	Re: Pye Black Box G63 I’d forget the Sonotone 9TA personally as most have failed over the 50 years since they were last produced. This is a shame because they were one of the best ceramic cartridges in ever made.

23rd Aug 2022, 4:24 pm	#6
Keith Heptode Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire, UK. Posts: 693	Re: Pye Black Box G63 Thank you all for your replies. I bought a "generic" turnover cartridge which fitted OK after a bit of fettling. Plenty of output from the amplifiers but it seemed lacking in bass so I paralleled the 10nF coupling capacitors from the first stages with 47nF and this improved things considerably. Bass cut control certainly not required though. Had problems with the autochanger sticking (even after cleaning/regreasing cam, etc). Following advice on another thread I re-surfaced the idler wheel and abraded the inner surface of the platter drum in a vertical direction. This gave enough grip to operate all autochanger functions. On the whole not bad performance for a ceramic cartridge and single cone speakers in a non-acoustically designed cabinet. __________________ Keith Yates - G3XGW VMARS & BVWS member http://www.tibblestone.com/oldradios/Old_Radios.htm

23rd Aug 2022, 4:52 pm	#7
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,324	Re: Pye Black Box G63 We wanted to use our Pye subsidiary comapny R&A to produce twin-cone 8" drivers for this, but the the planned production volume of the G63 was not high enough to justify this. We could have used ELAC's excellent 8" twin-cone unit, but of course they were not an in-house company. However, with the lid closed and the fairly wide spacing of the drivers in that long-low cabinet the sound, albeit undamped, was deemed adequate. __________________ Edward.