Buying and Selling privately: minimising risk

[wireman]

Not sure if this is an appropriate section for this but here goes.

I'm sure many of us either sell or purchase items related to our hobbies privately. This can be by direct contact, via an auction site or the scenario I'm thinking of which would be a transaction initiated on the Forum to have an item shipped to the purchaser where buyer and seller know little about each other.

In my case I'm happy to purchase items up to a certain value paying in advance. The difficulty comes when that value is above a level I'm comfortable with.
Thinking of the seller, I imagine that they just want minimal hassle.

Now with a commercial purchase you have various protections should something go wrong such as an item never arrives, was never sent, arrives broken etc. Using an auction site or certain forms of payment may also offer some protection.

So the question arises, is there a way to derisk a private transaction that is minimal overhead (such as an escrow service which tends to be used for really high value transactions) or do we just need to accept that some private purchases are just not for some people.

[paulsherwin]

The forum doesn't have a policy on this. Any sales are purely a matter for the individuals involved, and it's up to them to make financial arrangements with which they're comfortable.

While the mods try to weed out the occasional rogue seller, there's little we can do other than banning them. The forum doesn't endorse any particular seller in any way.

[Station X]

Take a look at this thread:-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=59676

[David G4EBT]

I've been a member of this forum since 2003, and over the years, I've sold many items to fellow forum members, notably this last year or so as I'm in decluttering mode. Most items I've sold have been under £25 or so, occasionally up to £50.00. I've always said to the buyer that I don't want payment 'up front' but to wait till they've received the item and are happy with it, letting me know of any problems. I advise them that I'll include payment details in the parcel.

No-on has ever let me down, but if they did, I can only say that trust is like virginity - when it's gone, it's gone.

There's a very old proverb which states: "If you should steal my lamp, the price you place on your honour, is the price of my lamp".

It's their honour at stake - not mine.

We live in an age in which if people get conned or ripped off, the tendency is to blame the victim for having been trusting, saying: 'they were asking for it, and should have had more sense', rather than to blame the perpetrator for being dishonest, but certainly on the forum, I prefer to see the best in people. Others might take a more cautious view, which I wouldn't question.

[wireman]

Originally Posted by Station X

Take a look at this thread:-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=59676

Thanks, I had read that before but missed one crucial point.

"If using PayPal use the option for paying for goods or services as this includes the PayPal protection."

I didn't realise this and it is not clear to me what type of transaction you are doing of you initiate payment TO someone using paypal instead of responding to a request for payment. I assume somebody pays a transaction fee for this and will need to check.

[Dave Moll]

When making a payment to PayPal, you have a choice of:
1) making a "friends and family" payment, which is usually free of charges but offers no protection when things go wrong, as it's effectively a gift rather than a payment
2) indicating that the payment is for a purchase and have some degree of protection - you then decide whether the charges are added to what you pay or are deducted from the amount the seller receives.

Does this help?

[stevehertz]

Personally I have had little go wrong with a purchase or sale on this forum. Oh, I once bought a receiver that was described as being generally in good condition and "in need of some TLC" only find that it was riddled with faults, hard to find parts missing and so on. I accepted it (couldn't do a lot about it) but I told the seller what I thought about his description. He never offered any kind of recompense, but stuck to the line that his description was accurate. But otherwise everything has been as sweet as a nut, and that's many, many transactions. I believe it's up to us as buyers and sellers to make our own judgments and arrangements.

[duncanlowe]

Originally Posted by wireman

Thanks, I had read that before but missed one crucial point.

"If using PayPal use the option for paying for goods or services as this includes the PayPal protection."

I didn't realise this and it is not clear to me what type of transaction you are doing of you initiate payment TO someone using paypal instead of responding to a request for payment. I assume somebody pays a transaction fee for this and will need to check.

It's a while since I've done it, so it may have changed. But last time I sent a payment, Paypal asked if I was paying for goods or services, or paying Family or friends (often referred to as F&F).

Sending to F&F incurs no fees, the recipient gets what you pay. But there's zero support from PP if you use it to buy things and it goes wrong.

Using the 'pay for goods or services' option, there is a fee. It used to be that the recipient had this deducted from what they received, but more recently the sender has the option to pay it up front, so the recipient gets the full amount.

You may see people requesting payment via F&F. This could be and often is to avoid the fees. But take care if it's an amount you can't afford to wave goodbye to if something goes wrong.

[stevehertz]

I see the point you're making there, but in my experience more often than not if something goes wrong, all of these people who supposedly offer compensation make it very difficult for you to actually access it. It's often difficult to contact and explain, proof of this, proof of that etc etc. Just my experience. I've never had a problem with the friends and family/gifts route - touch wood. Each to their own of course.

[paulsherwin]

They've changed the terminology now. The option is described as choosing purchase protection. It's the same thing though.

In general, nobody should be tempted by anything that seems too good to be true, especially if the seller doesn't have an established posting history here. Read some of their posts, and check the thanks thread to see if any previous sales have gone well. If in doubt, walk away. Sellers may want to be similarly cautious about potential buyers.

[sortedradio]

I personally have never had a problem with anyone I have bought anything from on the forum, but would perhaps be more cautious buying from a newish member, especially if there was a considerable amount involved.

[electronicskip]

I personally have never had a problem with any single purchase or sale myself, although ive never bought anything over about £50 posted although ive travelled to collect any real high value item .
Once you have been here a few years you do tend to get the feel of the place and the posters to a certain extent but that can change in an instant.

[ValvoStef]

I tend to give things away for free, collection only. Less hassle. Gone and gone. Too much stuff.

[joebog1]

I am a bit like Stef.
I dont really like paypal, but recently I bought a product from Asia. The product worked, the batteries and charger didnt. I contacted the seller and they wanted video of what the fault was. How does one video a light NOT coming on. I said I couldnt do video. I suggested they send me new batteries and a charger that were "tested ". They couldnt do that.
I contacted paypal and they suggested a full refund. I contacted the seller with this suggestion and they offered $50. The whole purchase was $89. I contacted Paypal, and lo and behold, I hade the full purchase price back in my account.
Asa plus, I got to keep the product which DOES work extremely well, a duff SMPS, and two sets of 18 volt 2AH battery packs. The batteries are very nice and I will chop them out of the cases and make my own battery packs.
All in all I Do recommend Paypal, especially since australia upgraded its buyer protection using such services.

Joe

[Station X]

Just reminder that this thread is about buying and selling PRIVATELY.

I interpret that as one private individual buying from another private individual without the involvement of commercial intermediaries such as online or physical auction houses, Amazon, eBuyer etc.

[wireman]

I suppose the best advice is for buyers and sellers to do a little research as suggested above. Dealing with people with a forum history would be safer than entertaining a too-good-to-be true deal from someone who joined a few days ago, although there could be exceptions in the case of estate clearances.

[The Philpott]

As alluded to earlier, and in response to the original question, private purchases above an amount that you can afford to wave goodbye to, are arguably suited to Paypal....just don't select F&F. Their terms and conditions are however changed quite regularly so it's best to research them at time of usage. A paypal a/c can be linked to your bank account or debit card giving you more flexibility, though some would choose not to do this.

Dave

[Paul Stenning]

PayPal (not friends and family) is a good option if you are unsure. They tend to side with the buyer in dispute resolutions, as long as there is reasonable evidence such as copies of email or PM correspondence etc (don't delete emails or PMs until you receive the item and are happy with it).

The reason why many of us offering items here prefer friends and family is because otherwise PayPal takes fees from other transactions, so we don't get the full amount. However there is no PayPal protection if you choose friends and family. That's probably fine when dealing with long-term members, especially for lower value items where any loss isn't painful, and I'm happy to pay that way in that situation.

If you don't want to use friends and family you could perhaps offer a little more, so the seller doesn't lose out too much (especially for low value items where most of the amount paid is actually for the postage). PayPal fees are currently 2.9% + 30p so you can work it out and make a fair offer, perhaps splitting the fees between you.

Businesses selling online using PayPal should factor the PayPal fees into their pricing (for example when I sell service data for £1.99 I actually only receive £1.63).

[OldTechFan96]

It's best to add the fees on top of the PP payment you make.

Here is a fee calculator I used earlier this year:

https://www.clothnappytree.com/ppcalculator/

[agardiner]

Given that the buying and selling sections on this forum are intended for regular contributors, I would say to use other means if you are concerned about protection.

Like others here, I have never had a problem and just trust that all will be well. In fact I find it refreshing how 'old school' the people on this forum generally are.