Obsolete Standard Details Wanted - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Kat Manton · 27th May 2006, 2:19 pm

Hi,

I can find information on the French/Belgian 819-line standard, but the details of a couple of others are eluding me. I'm intending to work out X modelines for these so I can put the information on the website. To do this I need full details of the timings of the video waveform.

For CBS field-sequential colour I have the following details:

Early 40s - 343-line, 20.580kHz line, 120Hz field, 60Hz frame, 40Hz colour field, 20Hz colour frame.
1949-1952 - 405-line, 29.160kHz line, 144Hz field, 72Hz frame, 48Hz colour field, 24Hz colour frame.

If anyone has the details of sync pulse width, line blanking, etc, etc; and particularly the details of how colour sync worked I'd appreciate it; I'd guess there was some difference in the V sync every third field.

The RGB combiner used for monochrome standards is not a lot of use in this case; what is needed is a circuit to sequentially select the red, green and blue video signals from the computer and generate and insert the correct syncs - not too difficult.

What will be more entertaining is I'll also have to build a set for it - hence some of the discussions elsewhere about modifying sets for somewhat odd and rather high line/field rates

Also, I only have the following information for other standards:

1936-1940s USA 343-line, 10.290kHz line-rate
1940s German 441-line, 11.025kHz line-rate
1940s French 455-line, 11.375kHz line-rate

Again, I need all the timing details of the waveform.

I'd appreciate detailed information on any other standards anyone can come up with; 405, 525, 625 and 819 (and probably 240) I've got covered

Regards, Kat

FERNSEH · 27th May 2006, 3:54 pm

Hi Kat,
The 1935 German 180 line standard must be (apart from the number of lines) similar to the Baird system. A single broad frame sync pulse and say, an 18 line long frame blanking period.

DFWB.

peter_scott · 27th May 2006, 7:31 pm

Here's the US 441 line standard

tubesrule · 28th May 2006, 12:47 pm

Here's the CBS Color Standard. The additional red color frame sync pulse was not actually used by the CBS sets. They had a push button the operator would use to get the wheel to lock to one of the three possilities.

Darryl

Station X · 28th May 2006, 2:14 pm

Didn't the first men to land on the moon use a colour TV camera with a rotating colour filter in front of the lens?

Anyone know the standard for that? I doubt there's much source material.

ppppenguin · 28th May 2006, 7:21 pm

The camera on Apollo 11 was monochrome. 325 lines, 10 frames per second. The secondary source I am using does not say whether interlaced or not. Subsequent Apollo missions had a camera with colur wheel in the CBS style. I don't know the resolution. All the cameras used a vidicon tube.

27th May 2006, 2:19 pm	#1
Kat Manton Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 1,698	Obsolete Standard Details Wanted Hi, I can find information on the French/Belgian 819-line standard, but the details of a couple of others are eluding me. I'm intending to work out X modelines for these so I can put the information on the website. To do this I need full details of the timings of the video waveform. For CBS field-sequential colour I have the following details: Early 40s - 343-line, 20.580kHz line, 120Hz field, 60Hz frame, 40Hz colour field, 20Hz colour frame. 1949-1952 - 405-line, 29.160kHz line, 144Hz field, 72Hz frame, 48Hz colour field, 24Hz colour frame. If anyone has the details of sync pulse width, line blanking, etc, etc; and particularly the details of how colour sync worked I'd appreciate it; I'd guess there was some difference in the V sync every third field. The RGB combiner used for monochrome standards is not a lot of use in this case; what is needed is a circuit to sequentially select the red, green and blue video signals from the computer and generate and insert the correct syncs - not too difficult. What will be more entertaining is I'll also have to build a set for it - hence some of the discussions elsewhere about modifying sets for somewhat odd and rather high line/field rates Also, I only have the following information for other standards: 1936-1940s USA 343-line, 10.290kHz line-rate 1940s German 441-line, 11.025kHz line-rate 1940s French 455-line, 11.375kHz line-rate Again, I need all the timing details of the waveform. I'd appreciate detailed information on any other standards anyone can come up with; 405, 525, 625 and 819 (and probably 240) I've got covered Regards, Kat

27th May 2006, 3:54 pm	#2
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,459	Re: Obsolete Standard Details Wanted Hi Kat, The 1935 German 180 line standard must be (apart from the number of lines) similar to the Baird system. A single broad frame sync pulse and say, an 18 line long frame blanking period. DFWB.

27th May 2006, 7:31 pm	#3
peter_scott Dekatron Join Date: May 2003 Location: Edinburgh, UK. Posts: 3,289	Re: Obsolete Standard Details Wanted Here's the US 441 line standard Attached Thumbnails

28th May 2006, 12:47 pm	#4
tubesrule Hexode Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Michigan USA Posts: 325	Re: Obsolete Standard Details Wanted Here's the CBS Color Standard. The additional red color frame sync pulse was not actually used by the CBS sets. They had a push button the operator would use to get the wheel to lock to one of the three possilities. Darryl Attached Thumbnails

28th May 2006, 2:14 pm	#5
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 22,759	Re: Obsolete Standard Details Wanted Didn't the first men to land on the moon use a colour TV camera with a rotating colour filter in front of the lens? Anyone know the standard for that? I doubt there's much source material. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

28th May 2006, 7:21 pm	#6
ppppenguin Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North London, UK. Posts: 6,167	Re: Obsolete Standard Details Wanted The camera on Apollo 11 was monochrome. 325 lines, 10 frames per second. The secondary source I am using does not say whether interlaced or not. Subsequent Apollo missions had a camera with colur wheel in the CBS style. I don't know the resolution. All the cameras used a vidicon tube.