Mystery Candlestick (Conversation Pieces?) - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Jim_746 · 15th Mar 2014, 9:22 pm

Hello,

I hummed and hawed about purchasing this as it’s very brassy for a candlestick but my want for a candlestick (and the fact it was relatively cheap) won out in the end.

I had a bit of a chuckle when I tested it and it’s tone ringer reminded me of a TRIMphone.

Having a search on the forums suggests this might be from the Conversation Pieces range? And could somebody please tell me how to get into the base as I would like to disconnect the tone ringer and use it with a bell.

Apologies for the mobile pictures.

Cheers,

Jim

Dave Moll · 15th Mar 2014, 9:35 pm

Given that there is a label on the base reading "Removal of this label would [result in?] forfeit of the warranty", I would expect that there is some sort of retaining screw behind it.

If you do succeed in opening the base - after all the warranty is not going to be valid anyway - it would be interesting to see what (modern) circuitry is hidden therein. I wonder whether there would be sufficient space to fit one of those miniature mechanical ringers inside.

Jim_746 · 15th Mar 2014, 9:45 pm

Hadn't thought of that, Dave! But it turns out there is no screw behind the warranty label.

I have had the dial off (it's fixed to the base with a single screw) and inside there is a small(ish) PCB. The PCB is secured to the base via the screws in the rubber feet.

Regards,

Jim

Dave Moll · 15th Mar 2014, 9:51 pm

A bit of digging threw up this thread from 2008 and this page from Bob Freshwater's Telephone File on these reproduction telephones. Mention is made of Telephone Lines of Cheltenham who may have had a connection with the now defunct Conversation Pieces Ltd.

Nickthedentist · 15th Mar 2014, 9:51 pm

What about that central nut, Jim?

Jim_746 · 15th Mar 2014, 9:58 pm

Dave: Those were the links I also found.

Nick: The central nut retains the mouthpiece. I have tried removing the nut and levering the base off but it didn't budge and I didn't want to force and damage anything.

Regards,

Jim

Dave Moll · 15th Mar 2014, 10:03 pm

With both the nut and the dial removed, can you gain access to any position on the base where you can apply pressure from the inside rather than levering from the outside?

Jim_746 · 15th Mar 2014, 10:09 pm

That thought did cross my mind; from my feeble attempts with just my fingers the base was as stubborn as it was with the levering. I may attempt it again but with something I can apply a bit more force with.

Regards,

Jim

Jim_746 · 15th Mar 2014, 11:12 pm

I tried some more gentle levering, as the base seems to suggest this is how it's removed, what with the cutout in it.

Success! Attached is a photo of the PCB. Unfortunately, the disabling of the tone ringer is more destructive than I hoped as it's hard-wired to the board.

Cheers,

Jim

julie_m · 16th Mar 2014, 5:51 am

Is that IC in there an SGS-Thomson LS285, by any chance? Basically, a silicon replacement for the induction coil. Although they were still using a mechanical dial .....

You might well be able to silence the tone ringer simply by disconnecting pin 3 of the line cord (blue, if coded red-blue-green-white). Otherwise, it should still only require unsoldering -- or cutting -- one wire. Any chance of a picture of the wiring side of the PCB, and a picture of the component side with wires out of the way and/or an explanation of what goes where?

Dave Moll · 16th Mar 2014, 10:19 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajs_derby

You might well be able to silence the tone ringer simply by disconnecting pin 3 of the line cord (blue, if coded red-blue-green-white).

I may be wrong, but I can only see two leads coming from what I assume is the line cord - oddly coloured white and blue. Is there a red lead hidden?

Jim_746 · 16th Mar 2014, 11:04 am

Dave, you may be mistaking the wire pair that goes to the receiver, which in this phone is white and blue, as the line cord.

From memory, the red, blue, green and white wires from the top connected to the top of the board is the line cord. The white and blue pair also connected to the top of the board go to the receiver. The pink, slate, orange and blue group of wires goes to the dial, and the brown pair goes up the stem to the hook switch and transmitter.

If I have time this evening I'll take some more photos and confirm the wiring.

Regards,

Jim

Dave Moll · 16th Mar 2014, 2:12 pm

Thanks for the clarification - that makes more sense. I wasn't sure which cord was which. There may, however, be a problem with following the advice given concerning disconnecting the blue wire from the line cord. Doesn't this normally feed the receiver as well as the ringer? Although there's no harm in trying if it is simply a matter of unhooking a connector.

Jim_746 · 16th Mar 2014, 10:43 pm

Right, here are some photographs that are hopefully a bit clearer.

The connections are as follows:

Top
Green - Line cord

Top row
Blue - Reciever
White - Reciever
Red - Line cord
Blue - Line cord
White - Line cord

Left colloumn
Blue - Dial
Slate and pink - Dial
Orange - Dial

Centre
Pink
Slate
Orange
Blue
All go up stem

Bottom brown x2 up stem.

The IC is marked SGS LS285AB 88427H

Regards,

Jim

Nickthedentist · 17th Mar 2014, 10:33 am

Is the ringer just a piezoelectric sounder with no inbuilt drive electronics, or does it contain its own PCB and an IC?

I suspect the latter, otherwise there would be a driver IC on the main PCB, rather like with the Statesman range of phones.

If that's the case, then maybe all you need to do is disconnect one of the wires from it.

N.

julie_m · 17th Mar 2014, 3:42 pm

Well, according to the second picture, everything can be disconnected from the PCB. So what happens if you connect everything except the blue wire of the line cord?

Jim_746 · 17th Mar 2014, 11:47 pm

Nick, I would agree with you.

I can confirm that disconnecting the blue wire of the line cord silences the tone ringer.

However, on another note, upon connecting the phone to my PBX (a BT 2+8) I have found that the tone ringer whistles when on hook and there is no dial tone off hook, just silence until the timeout tone when the phone is not connected via an ADSL filter.

Regards,

Jim

Millay_2010 · 19th Mar 2014, 12:43 am

I had one of these many moons ago, the phone worked perfectly except the tone ringer, I ended up replacing the bridge rectifier, you could just cut a leg on the BR? Although saying that there appear to be two on this phone, and i dont remember the Conversation pieces one i had having two. And i would want to be sure that the BR isnt feeding another part of the circuit so you would have to trace it through to the

15th Mar 2014, 9:22 pm	#1
Jim_746 Pentode Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Leyland, Nr. Preston, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 191	Mystery Candlestick (Conversation Pieces?) Hello, I hummed and hawed about purchasing this as it’s very brassy for a candlestick but my want for a candlestick (and the fact it was relatively cheap) won out in the end. I had a bit of a chuckle when I tested it and it’s tone ringer reminded me of a TRIMphone. Having a search on the forums suggests this might be from the Conversation Pieces range? And could somebody please tell me how to get into the base as I would like to disconnect the tone ringer and use it with a bell. Apologies for the mobile pictures. Cheers, Jim Attached Thumbnails __________________ "And what on earth are you going to do with that?"

15th Mar 2014, 9:35 pm	#2
Dave Moll Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK Posts: 6,130	Re: Mystery Candlestick (Conversation Pieces?) Given that there is a label on the base reading "Removal of this label would [result in?] forfeit of the warranty", I would expect that there is some sort of retaining screw behind it. If you do succeed in opening the base - after all the warranty is not going to be valid anyway - it would be interesting to see what (modern) circuitry is hidden therein. I wonder whether there would be sufficient space to fit one of those miniature mechanical ringers inside. __________________ Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)

15th Mar 2014, 9:45 pm	#3
Jim_746 Pentode Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Leyland, Nr. Preston, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 191	Re: Mystery Candlestick (Conversation Pieces?) Hadn't thought of that, Dave! But it turns out there is no screw behind the warranty label. I have had the dial off (it's fixed to the base with a single screw) and inside there is a small(ish) PCB. The PCB is secured to the base via the screws in the rubber feet. Regards, Jim __________________ "And what on earth are you going to do with that?"

15th Mar 2014, 9:51 pm	#4
Dave Moll Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK Posts: 6,130	Re: Mystery Candlestick (Conversation Pieces?) A bit of digging threw up this thread from 2008 and this page from Bob Freshwater's Telephone File on these reproduction telephones. Mention is made of Telephone Lines of Cheltenham who may have had a connection with the now defunct Conversation Pieces Ltd. __________________ Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)

15th Mar 2014, 9:51 pm	#5
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,864	Re: Mystery Candlestick (Conversation Pieces?) What about that central nut, Jim?

15th Mar 2014, 9:58 pm	#6
Jim_746 Pentode Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Leyland, Nr. Preston, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 191	Re: Mystery Candlestick (Conversation Pieces?) Dave: Those were the links I also found. Nick: The central nut retains the mouthpiece. I have tried removing the nut and levering the base off but it didn't budge and I didn't want to force and damage anything. Regards, Jim __________________ "And what on earth are you going to do with that?"

15th Mar 2014, 10:03 pm	#7
Dave Moll Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK Posts: 6,130	Re: Mystery Candlestick (Conversation Pieces?) With both the nut and the dial removed, can you gain access to any position on the base where you can apply pressure from the inside rather than levering from the outside? __________________ Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)

15th Mar 2014, 10:09 pm	#8
Jim_746 Pentode Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Leyland, Nr. Preston, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 191	Re: Mystery Candlestick (Conversation Pieces?) That thought did cross my mind; from my feeble attempts with just my fingers the base was as stubborn as it was with the levering. I may attempt it again but with something I can apply a bit more force with. Regards, Jim __________________ "And what on earth are you going to do with that?"

15th Mar 2014, 11:12 pm	#9
Jim_746 Pentode Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Leyland, Nr. Preston, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 191	Re: Mystery Candlestick (Conversation Pieces?) I tried some more gentle levering, as the base seems to suggest this is how it's removed, what with the cutout in it. Success! Attached is a photo of the PCB. Unfortunately, the disabling of the tone ringer is more destructive than I hoped as it's hard-wired to the board. Cheers, Jim Attached Thumbnails __________________ "And what on earth are you going to do with that?"

16th Mar 2014, 5:51 am	#10
julie_m Dekatron Join Date: May 2008 Location: Derby, UK. Posts: 7,735	Re: Mystery Candlestick (Conversation Pieces?) Is that IC in there an SGS-Thomson LS285, by any chance? Basically, a silicon replacement for the induction coil. Although they were still using a mechanical dial ..... You might well be able to silence the tone ringer simply by disconnecting pin 3 of the line cord (blue, if coded red-blue-green-white). Otherwise, it should still only require unsoldering -- or cutting -- one wire. Any chance of a picture of the wiring side of the PCB, and a picture of the component side with wires out of the way and/or an explanation of what goes where? __________________ If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.

16th Mar 2014, 11:04 am	#12
Jim_746 Pentode Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Leyland, Nr. Preston, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 191	Re: Mystery Candlestick (Conversation Pieces?) Dave, you may be mistaking the wire pair that goes to the receiver, which in this phone is white and blue, as the line cord. From memory, the red, blue, green and white wires from the top connected to the top of the board is the line cord. The white and blue pair also connected to the top of the board go to the receiver. The pink, slate, orange and blue group of wires goes to the dial, and the brown pair goes up the stem to the hook switch and transmitter. If I have time this evening I'll take some more photos and confirm the wiring. Regards, Jim __________________ "And what on earth are you going to do with that?"

16th Mar 2014, 2:12 pm	#13
Dave Moll Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK Posts: 6,130	Re: Mystery Candlestick (Conversation Pieces?) Thanks for the clarification - that makes more sense. I wasn't sure which cord was which. There may, however, be a problem with following the advice given concerning disconnecting the blue wire from the line cord. Doesn't this normally feed the receiver as well as the ringer? Although there's no harm in trying if it is simply a matter of unhooking a connector. __________________ Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)

16th Mar 2014, 10:43 pm	#14
Jim_746 Pentode Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Leyland, Nr. Preston, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 191	Re: Mystery Candlestick (Conversation Pieces?) Right, here are some photographs that are hopefully a bit clearer. The connections are as follows: Top Green - Line cord Top row Blue - Reciever White - Reciever Red - Line cord Blue - Line cord White - Line cord Left colloumn Blue - Dial Slate and pink - Dial Orange - Dial Centre Pink Slate Orange Blue All go up stem Bottom brown x2 up stem. The IC is marked SGS LS285AB 88427H Regards, Jim Attached Thumbnails __________________ "And what on earth are you going to do with that?"

17th Mar 2014, 10:33 am	#15
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,864	Re: Mystery Candlestick (Conversation Pieces?) Is the ringer just a piezoelectric sounder with no inbuilt drive electronics, or does it contain its own PCB and an IC? I suspect the latter, otherwise there would be a driver IC on the main PCB, rather like with the Statesman range of phones. If that's the case, then maybe all you need to do is disconnect one of the wires from it. N.

17th Mar 2014, 3:42 pm	#16
julie_m Dekatron Join Date: May 2008 Location: Derby, UK. Posts: 7,735	Re: Mystery Candlestick (Conversation Pieces?) Well, according to the second picture, everything can be disconnected from the PCB. So what happens if you connect everything except the blue wire of the line cord? __________________ If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.

17th Mar 2014, 11:47 pm	#17
Jim_746 Pentode Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Leyland, Nr. Preston, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 191	Re: Mystery Candlestick (Conversation Pieces?) Nick, I would agree with you. I can confirm that disconnecting the blue wire of the line cord silences the tone ringer. However, on another note, upon connecting the phone to my PBX (a BT 2+8) I have found that the tone ringer whistles when on hook and there is no dial tone off hook, just silence until the timeout tone when the phone is not connected via an ADSL filter. Regards, Jim __________________ "And what on earth are you going to do with that?"

19th Mar 2014, 12:43 am	#18
Millay_2010 Hexode Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hull, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 315	Re: Mystery Candlestick (Conversation Pieces?) I had one of these many moons ago, the phone worked perfectly except the tone ringer, I ended up replacing the bridge rectifier, you could just cut a leg on the BR? Although saying that there appear to be two on this phone, and i dont remember the Conversation pieces one i had having two. And i would want to be sure that the BR isnt feeding another part of the circuit so you would have to trace it through to the