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Vintage Radio (domestic) Domestic vintage radio (wireless) receivers only.

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Old 20th Mar 2018, 5:11 pm   #1
rontech
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Default Marconi console radio ca 1937/8

In the 1940's and 50's My father had a pre war console radio made by Marconi.

Quite tall, I should say about 45 inch, w / d say 24 inch x 16 inch.

The chassis was electrically identical to the HMV Model 650 which my father acquired in mid fifties as a second set. This model appears with a lot of details on the radiomuseum website.

Both were 10 valve 5 waveband superhets with 10 watt push pull o/p stage.

The speaker was an early EMI 13 inch x 8 inch elliptical unit with the long axis horizontal.

I can find no reference anywhere to the Marconi console version and unfortunately cannot recall its model number.

I woud be grateful if any member had any information.
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Old 20th Mar 2018, 5:34 pm   #2
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Default Re: Marconi console radio ca 1937/8

The model number is 564. There were three models with this chassis from each of HMV and Marconi: the Marconi table version was the 561, and their radiogram, in a massive cabinet on Queen Anne legs, the 563. HMV's radiogram was the 660, in a more conventional cabinet, and they also marketed the 655, a low "armchaIr console" with a glass top and incorporating book shelves.

Paul
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Old 20th Mar 2018, 9:21 pm   #3
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Default Re: Marconi console radio ca 1937/8

Thanks for the information Paul.

The radiomuseum website shows Marconi model 564 as an 11 valve set with a record player and also containing two loudspeakers.

My father's set had no record player; there was no lid on the top of the cabinet. Also only a single speaker.

As a matter of interest the shortest wave band contined a frequency of 45MHz (I think) to enable reception of TV sound from the Alexandra Palace transmitter.

In Southport of course the distance made reception impossible. My own recollection was that very few staions could be tuned in on that particular band.

The mystery continues---

Ron.

Last edited by rontech; 20th Mar 2018 at 9:22 pm. Reason: typos
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Old 20th Mar 2018, 9:56 pm   #4
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Default Re: Marconi console radio ca 1937/8

A most impressive chassis and range of sets- your father must have been proud of this quality partnership of furniture and electronics. ISTR that the VHF coverage extended to 60MHz, presumably with the intent of listening to any future expansion of the TV channels, or perhaps the VHF/AM radio mooted in the US at round this time? It was certainly a tall order for the pinch-base pentode amplifiers and hexode/heptode mixers of the time. A BBC report on this chassis as HMV 650 noted that the sensitivity on this highest frequency band was notably down on the other bands- though it might still have been of use on 11m.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications/rdreport_1945_21

Is it possible that this radio-only console was a low-production or even one-off job, perhaps by a cabinet-maker to accommodate this rather posh (and heavy!) double chassis? Hopelessly old-fashioned though it may be, I rather like the console radio concept- and would love to find an HMV 655 one day!
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Old 20th Mar 2018, 10:11 pm   #5
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Default Re: Marconi console radio ca 1937/8

Hello Ron,

Quote:
Originally Posted by rontech View Post
The radiomuseum website shows Marconi model 564 as an 11 valve set with a record player and also containing two loudspeakers.
It's wrong, then

That's a fair description of the 563 - I know, there's one a few feet from me - but the 564 was the console radio.

From the Trader's "Receiver Specifications and Prices 1935-1940":

"Model 561. 9v.(plus) A.C. all-wave sup-het. with C.R.tuning. W63, X64, z63, two W63, D63, Z63, two KT63, U50, Y63. 4.85-12, 11.3-34 and 34-107m. 10W. P.U. X.L.S. (5O). 195/255V, 50-100c. £25.4s. I.F. 465 KC/S. (Sept. '37.) Price 19 gns. from Aug., '38.

Model 564. Same, but console. £33. 12s. (Sept., '37.) Price 22 gns. from Aug., '38.

Model 563. Same, but auto radio-gram for 195/255V, 50-60c. £70.7s. (Sept., '37.) Price 39 gns. from July, '39."

The substantial price reductions later on are quite unusual, and aren't reproduced in the HMV section, where the 650 launched at 24 gns. like its Marconi equivalent, the 655 in "armchair" style cost rather more than the more conventional Marconi console at 36 gns., and the 660 in a simpler cabinet than the 563 undercut the Marconi radiogram at 62 gns.

Paul
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Old 20th Mar 2018, 11:25 pm   #6
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Default Re: Marconi console radio ca 1937/8

Hello,
The picture below from the Wireless World 1937 Radio Show report confirms Paul's information.
From the Broadcaster service sheets The HMV 650, Marconi 561, and 564 all have 11 valves including rectifier and tuning indicator.
Yours Richard
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

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Old 20th Mar 2018, 11:36 pm   #7
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Default Re: Marconi console radio ca 1937/8

That's a handsome set, to me at least. A pity more of them haven't survived: the table models and the 563 turn up now and again, even the 655, but I don't recall seeing an extant example of this version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Moose View Post
...The HMV 650, Marconi 561, and 564 all have 11 valves including rectifier and tuning indicator.
Yours Richard
Any discrepancies just concern what counts as a valve - the Trader publication's "9v.(plus)" means that the rectifier and tuning indicator are in addition to the 9.

Paul
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Old 21st Mar 2018, 9:50 am   #8
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Default Re: Marconi console radio ca 1937/8

Many, many thanks Mr Moose!

Your thumbnail picture is exactly as I remember the set ( pause for wallow in nostalgia! ).

Thanks too to Paul for all your information. I agree that the radiomuseum does not seem to have the correct information.

Ron.
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Old 21st Mar 2018, 10:25 am   #9
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Default Re: Marconi console radio ca 1937/8

I have requested a change to the 564 on Radiomuseum it's correctly described on the page as a console and gives the source as Wireless World August 1937 (its page 216) http://www.americanradiohistory.com/...ld-1937-08.pdf

Looks like a simple finger trouble or typo easily done.

Always worth contacting RM if you see mistakes, Ernst is keen to have the information as accurate as possible.

Cheers

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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 2:53 pm   #10
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Default Re: Marconi console radio ca 1937/8

This thread has triggered another query in my mind.

I have ( a little hazy ) memory of some valves in my two sets, the 564 and the 650 with type numbers KTW63 and KTZ63. I think they maybe equivalents or near equivalents to the original W63 valves referred to in the above data sources. I have discovered the KTs are pentodes for RF and IF frequencies but little more. Information; comments? anyone
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 3:20 pm   #11
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Default Re: Marconi console radio ca 1937/8

Hello,
The KT prefix in Marconi-Osram valves stands for Kinkless Tetrode (AKA Beam Tetrode) and have beam deflecting plates instead of a suppressor grid.
The KTW63 and KTK63 are the Kinkless Tetrode equivalents to the pentodes W63 and Z63.
W is for a variable mu and Z for a straight, RF Pentode or Kinkless Tetrode.
Yours, Richard
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 5:56 pm   #12
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Default Re: Marconi console radio ca 1937/8

Thanks a lot Richard.

It. is clear now. As a matter of fact I was reading about kinkless tetrodes a few days back in connection with a little project I am working on.

Ron.
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Old 24th Mar 2018, 11:11 am   #13
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Default Re: Marconi console radio ca 1937/8

A couple of design aspects of these sets which may be of interest, involves the mechanics of tuning control etc.

There were no drive cords. The tuning capacitor was gear driven from the shaft of the tuning knob.

One of the gears ( can't remember which ) consisted of two identical gears, mounted flat against each other each having two slots diametrically opposite each other and containing a compression spring. The system was arranged in such a way that the two gears were forced round in opposite directions against a stop. Thus in assembly the two gears would be rotated back, compressing the springs and then brought into mesh with the driver gear. The effect was to take up any backlash in the drive train. All this in solid brass.

The wavechange switch shaft, drove a waveband indicator disc located near the top corner of the dial. This was by a sprocket and chain system. I recall the chain and sprockets seemed identical to those in my Meccano set!
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Old 24th Mar 2018, 12:16 pm   #14
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Default Re: Marconi console radio ca 1937/8

The spring loaded twin gear arrangement is a standard way to do anti-backlash tuning drives. More likely to be seen in professional communications gear than domestic sets, though more recently some airspaced tuning caps in transistor sets had a built in version.

All in keeping with the upmarket nature of this set!
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Old 25th Mar 2018, 12:17 pm   #15
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Default Re: Marconi console radio ca 1937/8

A modern take on this family of sets would certainly include "over-engineered" in the criticisms, the middling 559 here also has geared, split-wheel tuning with a dual-ratio coaxial arrangement reminiscent of the (also Marconi) CR100, as is the thick steel chassis. As well as the multitude of precise steel and brass parts in the tuning drive itself, the sturdy tuning scale/ magic eye support assembly uses lots of small stamped steel parts that all needed to be precisely spot-welded together. The thick ceramic bases used for front-end coils and IFTs also give an air of quality. Whilst thrifting has always been a part of mass production, this pre-war series of sets reflects the way in which a "wireless" would have been a substantial investment that was expected to last a long time and also an attractive piece of furniture that was a source of pride.
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