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Old 17th Mar 2013, 12:27 am   #1
Franky H
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Default Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

Hi everyone, I am looking for some honest advice on the SME 3009 tonearms. I know these arms are classics and I am thinking of buying one for my Thorens 160B MkII to complete the set-up. My main source for these arms is Ebay and they are usually selling for at least 250 pounds.

I am a complete novice with HiFi so I would like to know.

Which model is best the I, II, II improved, fixed/detachable headshell, Series III?

Is the money worth it for the quality and the clarity you can obtain.

Alternatively, for the same money what type of tonearm would you recommend I get?

Thanks for your help.

Frank
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Old 17th Mar 2013, 1:29 pm   #2
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Default Re: Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

SMEs are a work of art, and finely engineered, but many would argue that there are better arms amongst the more recent offerings out there.
First question is what cartridge you intend to use.
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Old 18th Mar 2013, 12:45 am   #3
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Default Re: Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

Frank,

The 3009 is a gorgeous piece of engineering. The prices you see on Ebay are what they sell for. You probably aren't going to find one for less. The real variable is the condition, and there you're in the hands of fate unless you can inspect it first and know what to look for.

The removable headshell is very convenient but it puts up the effective mass. I think they sound fine, but my ears are perfectly normal ones.

The fixed headshell is inconvenient sometimes but it reduces the effective mass. I think they also sound fine but... etc.

The 3009 was the tool of choice, usually armed with a V15.

Then things changed. A new movement stormed the hifi world. Arms had to be stiff, bearings had to have no weakness. Record players started to be built like cutting lathes. At this time the trend towards moving coil cartridges was in full swing.

If you think suspending a cartridge by telepathy, and using its mass for its compliance to work against is a good idea, theSME arms are excellent.

If you think that the path from the cartridge through the arm, bearings chassis and turntable beating must be as stiff as possible, then you ought to question the use of vinyl for records and look for something stiffer.

Joking aside, the SME fell out of favour with the pundits, and people started chasing Ittoks etc. But there has been a resurgence of interest in the 3009 (there were very few 3012 arms around) and they have become sought after, and the price reflects it.

Moving coil cartridges do produce rather a high moving mass value seen at the stylus, and they have a rising HF response which nicely compensates the reduction inHF content of the records played with them. But the problematic mass exists right there in the cartridge, the only forces presented to the arm are those of the compliance of the mounting elastomer and the wires.

Records are harder to get and are heritage items, I suppose. A gentler player will help them last longer. A 3009 with one of the better Shure or Ortofon cartridges fits this role.
It may have been different when you could replace your records easily, but I think the days of the strident groove-straighteners have ended.

What else is there?

Well there are the transcriptors/Mitchell turntables and arms. I think they sound fine.
I use a Beogram 4000, but cartridges and stylus rebuilds are expensive. All these things sound fine, though the pundits hated them.

Me, I'd go for the 3009, but I'd worry about finding a good one.

David
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Old 18th Mar 2013, 1:11 am   #4
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Default Re: Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

Somewhere in my attic is a Thorens TD150 with an SME 3009 series 2 improved fixed headshell and an Ortofon VMS20E cartridge. I did not realise how valuable this combination is. I must dig it out and see how it has faired after 30 years of storage.

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Old 18th Mar 2013, 1:30 am   #5
Franky H
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Default Re: Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SME-3009-S...item3f233ec014

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SME-3009-S...p2047675.l2557

Yep they seem to be worth their weight in gold!

I am not sure I want to part with nearly 300 pounds for one. I already have a Thorens 160B Mk II with a Linn Basik LV X, but was wanting to complete the set-up with the SME 3009.

I guess I'll keep looking.
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Old 18th Mar 2013, 12:44 pm   #6
Franky H
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Default Re: Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

Quote:
Originally Posted by dseymo1 View Post
SMEs are a work of art, and finely engineered, but many would argue that there are better arms amongst the more recent offerings out there.
First question is what cartridge you intend to use.
What would you recommend? Under about 150 pound?

I was born in the era of personal walkman stereo and then the CD so I have no experience on what would work well with a Thorens 160B MkII and an SME 3009.

I am all ears.
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Old 18th Mar 2013, 2:27 pm   #7
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Default Re: Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

Prices do vary, this listing ended today

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2009061192...84.m1423.l2649

for a detachable headshell version, with the instructions etc, a fair price and not too far from your £150 target.

Another alternative, something from the Rega range, RB250/300, but if it is an SME that you really want, keep looking.

I'm not so keen on the MkIII, mine works well, just a personal preference, not so keen on all that plastic. Much prefer my MkII versions.

Alan
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Old 20th Mar 2013, 4:09 pm   #8
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Default Re: Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

Others may remember differently but I thought that the Mk I covered a tracking weight range of 0 to 5 grams, whilst the MK II covered a range of 0 to 3 grams.

Also, I understand that the rubber used in the counterweight mechanism of the MK I often has deteriorated by now.

Certainly the arm of choice in the 1970s.
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Old 20th Mar 2013, 8:24 pm   #9
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Default Re: Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

I can confirm that the rubber damping components in the counterweight assembly can deteriorate. SME supplied me with replacements for a 3009 and a 3012 about 2 years ago.

PMM
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Old 21st Mar 2013, 9:33 am   #10
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Default Re: Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

A good but economical arm was the Acos Lustre. Probably harder to find now than an SME, but likely to be under the £150 limit.

David
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Old 26th Nov 2013, 9:30 am   #11
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Default Re: Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

Thankfully (every cloud has a silver lining – so they say) due to my age (57) my hearing is no longer as good as it once was, I can still appreciate good sound quality both live and recorded but I don’t kid myself I can discern the subtle differences between this and that unless they are side by side. I have the luxury of not having to worry too much about sound quality these days. Rarely do we get the opportunity for A and B comparisons because long gone are the huge REW’s and other fully equipped HiFi stores along the Tottenham Court Road where you could listen to A, B, C or D at a flick of a switch.

I tend to listen to the wireless mostly on my FM tuners, I still use Minidisc (I can hear you all cringe….) CD, and I still listen to vinyl on my 401, custom built plinth with two arms, SME 3009 II Improved – Ortofon VMS20E and a Series III and Shure V15 III. None of this equipment I own has depreciated in value if the prices on eBay are anything to go by, I have a Studer A807, Pioneer TX9500 II, TX9800, Revox B760, Quad FM4, Quad 303, Leak Stereo 20 valve amp driving a pair of Tannoy Cheviots. All this stuff has an intrinsic value still to this day.

You may think £300 is a lot of money for a second hand SME Series II but if you look after it you’ll get your money back should you wish to sell it. In the meantime you can sit back, enjoy the music and have the satisfaction of using something a little bit special. Or, you may make the mistake of buying something else (cheaper) now only to bite the bullet later and have to pay even more for an SME arm in years to come. My advice would be to buy what you really want, pay the money and if you are not satisfied with the investment sell it on, at least you’ll put your mind at rest. Be patient and wait for one to come up locally so you can look at it first – just in case.

Best regards,
Chris.

Last edited by Station X; 26th Nov 2013 at 11:56 am. Reason: White space added.
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Old 26th Nov 2013, 12:47 pm   #12
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Default Re: Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

SME 3009 arm on a classic turntable, it'll sound good with the right MM cartridge, anything from the shure range of the era and styli are still available. I'd factor in the cost of a service and possible refurbishment from SME too.

Or if you want a modern arm that will go on forever and will get the best from a modest cartridge like an Audio Technica AT95E ,which in my opinion is the bargain of the times, then look no further than a Rega RB250 or its later incarnations (RB251 etc). Just make sure that you can mount the arm on your turntable with as little messing around as possible. Early rega arms are easy to mount, requiring nothing more than a hole the correct distance from the spindle. Later ones have a 3 point fixing.
Be wary of getting caught up in a bidding war, I have seen these things go on ebay for far more than you could buy one in a shop with a warranty!
Check out www.2ndhandhifi.co.uk . Simon Griffin will give you good unbiased advice and may well have something in stock that will do the job. He specialises in turntables etc.
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Old 26th Nov 2013, 4:59 pm   #13
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Default Re: Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

The price of SME's has shot up in the last few years as people realise the intrinsic value of a finely engineered British product from the golden age of audio. I Bought my 3009 S2 fixed headshell new to install on my Thorens TD125 mk II in the late 70's, I paid circa £30 for it from Comet! All still working fine even now.

One alternative you could consider is a Linn Basik, they don't seem to have culted yet!
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Old 26th Nov 2013, 6:49 pm   #14
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Default Re: Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

One kind forum member ("Mr Flibble", I think) GAVE me one c/w a Thorens deck a few years ago. I still use it regularly. It will not be sold!

I got another on a similar 1980s Thorens for £25 in a junk shop about 10 years back.
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Old 26th Nov 2013, 9:24 pm   #15
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Default Re: Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

I wonder whether the OP made a decision in the end? I like all the SME 3009/12 series as long as they have a removable headshell. It is very satisfying being able to service and shine almost every part, except maybe the dashpot for the arm lift.

It is even possible to buy a SME 3009 II or Improved a few parts at a time and assemble the tonearm yourself.
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Old 26th Nov 2013, 9:46 pm   #16
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Default Re: Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

Very little to add regarding the SME3009.

I have be using an S2 detachable for over 30 years, superbly engineered and it works well with a wide range of cartridges. Even so, a little care is needed to estimate arm/cartridge resonance, get that right and everything else falls into place. As has often been stated a Shure V15 III was the perfect match for this arm and the mainstay of many high end systems in the 1970's. By the middle 1980's a 3009 could be had for very little money as hifi fashions changed and I bought a pristine second hand Thorens TD125 Mk1/3009 S2 fitted in the SME 2000 plinth all for £75.

It is fair to say many low to medium compliance moving coil cartridges are not compatible with the knife edge bearings and caused them to chatter! SME offered a damper system but I don't think it was particularly effective and largely removed the advantages of having an SME in the first place.

I am currently 'roughing it' with a Shure 95ED cartridge since one coil of the V15 went open circuit. Another head shell is equipped with a half inch B&O adapter and MMC20E for 45's.

Just a thought, has anyone tried a Grado Red/Silver/Gold variable reluctance cartridge with the 3009? On paper it ought to match mechanically in terms of resonance etc.

Cheers
Rich
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Old 28th Nov 2013, 8:07 am   #17
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Default Re: Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

If you don't want to spend that much on a SME then an arm that is steadily rising in value but has not gone skyhigh yet is the Rega R200 (based on the lustre) I have always preferred the sound of this arm to the RB250/300. the only problem with these arms is the bias belt is often perished due to age, but there is a guy who can supply a replacement who sells on ebay. I was lucky in that I modified a Dual pitch pitch control belt to fit mine
In a previous post I have said all I can about my SME 3009 so no more to say.
Good luck
Gary
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Old 28th Nov 2013, 10:11 am   #18
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Default Re: Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

I dug this out of the loft this morning. Can anyone tell me the maker of the arm? I think there should be a headshell for it knocking about somewhere. Thanks, John.
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Old 28th Nov 2013, 10:12 am   #19
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Default Re: Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

The Lustre/Rega have the same headshell fitting as the SME, by the way, so you can fit a lighter SME shell if you wish.

David
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Old 28th Nov 2013, 1:11 pm   #20
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Default Re: Value of SME 3009 Tonearms??

Maybe Garrard, same as turntable? Headshell coupling looks similar to AT6 etc.
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