Identity of this tape recorder - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Hammonds · 27th Apr 2015, 6:52 pm

Good afternoon, All

I've volunteered to try and get this tape recorder going for a friend, who seems to remember it being made by Baird.

Can someone identify it, please and, if possible locate a circuit diagram for it.

It's been in his shed for the best part of 50 years and the top of the chassis looks in a very sorry state.

Here's hoping!

Best regards

Dave

Reelman · 27th Apr 2015, 7:04 pm

This looks like a later version of the Scophony Baird, one of the first UK tape recorders.

http://www.vintagerecorders.co.uk/VR...age.asp?IDS=49

Good luck with the restoration!

Peter

DOFFERY · 27th Apr 2015, 7:20 pm

The Baird Soundmaster, correct Peter.

Colin.

Hammonds · 27th Apr 2015, 7:20 pm

Thanks, Peter

I knew someone on the Forum would have an answer!

That's a great start - any ideas where I might get a circuit, please?

Best regards

Dave

trsomian · 27th Apr 2015, 9:47 pm

The motors look like Colaro motors, so did they make the whole of the mechanics?

Hammonds · 27th Apr 2015, 11:00 pm

Hi trsomain

Yes, both the motors are Collaro, but I don't know if Collaro made all the mechanics.

Best regards

Dave

brenellic2000 · 28th Apr 2015, 3:04 pm

Mk.II This will differ slightly from yours. (ex-Hellyer)

Hammonds · 29th Apr 2015, 7:38 am

Good morning, brenellic2000

Thanks a million for your help with a circuit diagram etc.

The recorder I'm looking at is slightly different (MkI ?), but the info you have supplied will be useful. I think this recorder must be a very early one, with only one speed and no EM81.

I powered it up slowly with a Variac and it looked as if the rectifier valve didn't light up so may be kaput. I've tried to remove the rectifier, but it seems to be welded into the valve holder. If it hasn't been moved since 1951, perhaps it's not surprising.

Any ideas how I might shift it please?

Could I trouble you to supply me with higher resolution photos from the Hellyer service manual, please? If so, I could PM you with my email address.

Thanks again

Dave

mark pirate · 29th Apr 2015, 10:35 am

It uses rimlock valves. If they are the early type with the metal base, they have probably rusted to the outer part of the valve holder.
I would spray the base with WD40 and gently try to rock the valve free using a circular motion. You may be able to use a wooden dowel to push the valve out from the bottom of the holder, but be careful of breaking off the pip on the side of the valve if the base is glass rather than metal!

Mark

Tractorfan · 29th Apr 2015, 3:20 pm

Hi,
If I remember correctly, these machines have the recording & erase heads above the tape path, so the tape will have to be reeled with the oxide surface outermost. This is the reverse, of course, to the 'traditional' way of doing things.
Cheers, Pete.

Hammonds · 29th Apr 2015, 4:31 pm

Hi Pete

You're quite correct - should be fun, if I can get it going.

Cheers, Dave

Hammonds · 29th Apr 2015, 4:39 pm

Hi Mark

Thanks for that. This must be pre-rimlock days, because I can't spy any spring thing for holding the valve in.

I got caught by that with a vintage radio a while back and neatly removed the base of the valve - EL41, I think!

Best regards

Dave

mark pirate · 29th Apr 2015, 4:51 pm

Hi Dave, they are definitely rimlock valves. The holders on your chassis do not have the securing ring fitted, they have a spring clip above the side pip.
Judging by the rust on the chassis, this is probably seized solid!

Mark

Hammonds · 1st May 2015, 1:22 pm

Hi Mark

You're quite right - I found the little spring strip, removed it and managed to remove the "dead" EZ40.

The valve line up is 2 X EF40, 2 X EL41 and 1 X EZ40, so slightly different to
Brenellic2000's information.

If anyone out there has any Hellyer service information for this particular Baird Soundmaster, I would be very grateful.

Best regards

Dave

mark pirate · 1st May 2015, 1:47 pm

Glad to hear you removed the valve without damage.
I would give the old EZ40's pins a good clean, the heater may be fine after all!

Mark

Hammonds · 1st May 2015, 4:30 pm

Hi Mark

I removed the spring device for the valve holder, managed to wiggle rectifier out and then cleaned up the pins with a glass pencil.

I put the rectifier back in and gradually wound up the power on the Variac to reform the electrolytics. That did the trick, with a loud hum now, but that's for another day!

Incidentally, I can't see any glow from the cathode area - maybe that's normal for this valve.

Thanks for your help again.

Best regards

Dave

mark pirate · 1st May 2015, 4:34 pm

Quote:

I put the rectifier back in and gradually wound up the power on the Variac to reform the electrolytics. That did the trick, with a loud hum now, but that's for another day!

Sound like replacement smoothing caps are the next step, after years in a damp shed it is not surprising!

Mark

Hammonds · 6th May 2015, 9:12 pm

Hi All

I've just removed the tape heads, which appear completely shot, with a groove 1/4 inch wide worn down through the brass shielding.

Thus, with that and the absence of a circuit diagram of this particular model, I have reluctantly decided to call it a day.

Thanks anyway.

Mods - can you close this thread, please.

Dave

27th Apr 2015, 6:52 pm	#1
Hammonds Heptode Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 574	Identity of this tape recorder Good afternoon, All I've volunteered to try and get this tape recorder going for a friend, who seems to remember it being made by Baird. Can someone identify it, please and, if possible locate a circuit diagram for it. It's been in his shed for the best part of 50 years and the top of the chassis looks in a very sorry state. Here's hoping! Best regards Dave Attached Thumbnails

27th Apr 2015, 7:04 pm	#2
Reelman Octode Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Rotherham, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 1,724	Re: Identity of this tape recorder This looks like a later version of the Scophony Baird, one of the first UK tape recorders. http://www.vintagerecorders.co.uk/VR...age.asp?IDS=49 Good luck with the restoration! Peter

27th Apr 2015, 7:20 pm	#3
DOFFERY Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 1,488	Re: Identity of this tape recorder The Baird Soundmaster, correct Peter. Colin.

27th Apr 2015, 7:20 pm	#4
Hammonds Heptode Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 574	Re: Identity of this tape recorder Thanks, Peter I knew someone on the Forum would have an answer! That's a great start - any ideas where I might get a circuit, please? Best regards Dave

27th Apr 2015, 9:47 pm	#5
trsomian Hexode Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Box End, Beds. UK. Posts: 271	Re: Identity of this tape recorder The motors look like Colaro motors, so did they make the whole of the mechanics?

27th Apr 2015, 11:00 pm	#6
Hammonds Heptode Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 574	Re: Identity of this tape recorder Hi trsomain Yes, both the motors are Collaro, but I don't know if Collaro made all the mechanics. Best regards Dave Attached Thumbnails

28th Apr 2015, 3:04 pm	#7
brenellic2000 Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 1,647	Re: Identity of this tape recorder Mk.II This will differ slightly from yours. (ex-Hellyer) Attached Thumbnails

29th Apr 2015, 7:38 am	#8
Hammonds Heptode Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 574	Re: Identity of this tape recorder Good morning, brenellic2000 Thanks a million for your help with a circuit diagram etc. The recorder I'm looking at is slightly different (MkI ?), but the info you have supplied will be useful. I think this recorder must be a very early one, with only one speed and no EM81. I powered it up slowly with a Variac and it looked as if the rectifier valve didn't light up so may be kaput. I've tried to remove the rectifier, but it seems to be welded into the valve holder. If it hasn't been moved since 1951, perhaps it's not surprising. Any ideas how I might shift it please? Could I trouble you to supply me with higher resolution photos from the Hellyer service manual, please? If so, I could PM you with my email address. Thanks again Dave

29th Apr 2015, 10:35 am	#9
mark pirate Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK Posts: 5,185	Re: Identity of this tape recorder It uses rimlock valves. If they are the early type with the metal base, they have probably rusted to the outer part of the valve holder. I would spray the base with WD40 and gently try to rock the valve free using a circular motion. You may be able to use a wooden dowel to push the valve out from the bottom of the holder, but be careful of breaking off the pip on the side of the valve if the base is glass rather than metal! Mark

29th Apr 2015, 3:20 pm	#10
Tractorfan Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Frajou, l'Isle en Dodon, Haute Garonne, France.(Previously: Ellesmere Port, Cheshire, UK.) Posts: 3,184	Re: Identity of this tape recorder Hi, If I remember correctly, these machines have the recording & erase heads above the tape path, so the tape will have to be reeled with the oxide surface outermost. This is the reverse, of course, to the 'traditional' way of doing things. Cheers, Pete. __________________ "Hello?, Yes, I'm on the train, I might lose the signal soon as we're just going into a tunn..."

29th Apr 2015, 4:31 pm	#11
Hammonds Heptode Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 574	Re: Identity of this tape recorder Hi Pete You're quite correct - should be fun, if I can get it going. Cheers, Dave

29th Apr 2015, 4:39 pm	#12
Hammonds Heptode Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 574	Re: Identity of this tape recorder Hi Mark Thanks for that. This must be pre-rimlock days, because I can't spy any spring thing for holding the valve in. I got caught by that with a vintage radio a while back and neatly removed the base of the valve - EL41, I think! Best regards Dave

29th Apr 2015, 4:51 pm	#13
mark pirate Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK Posts: 5,185	Re: Identity of this tape recorder Hi Dave, they are definitely rimlock valves. The holders on your chassis do not have the securing ring fitted, they have a spring clip above the side pip. Judging by the rust on the chassis, this is probably seized solid! Mark

1st May 2015, 1:22 pm	#14
Hammonds Heptode Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 574	Re: Identity of this tape recorder Hi Mark You're quite right - I found the little spring strip, removed it and managed to remove the "dead" EZ40. The valve line up is 2 X EF40, 2 X EL41 and 1 X EZ40, so slightly different to Brenellic2000's information. If anyone out there has any Hellyer service information for this particular Baird Soundmaster, I would be very grateful. Best regards Dave

1st May 2015, 1:47 pm	#15
mark pirate Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK Posts: 5,185	Re: Identity of this tape recorder Glad to hear you removed the valve without damage. I would give the old EZ40's pins a good clean, the heater may be fine after all! Mark

1st May 2015, 4:30 pm	#16
Hammonds Heptode Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 574	Re: Identity of this tape recorder Hi Mark I removed the spring device for the valve holder, managed to wiggle rectifier out and then cleaned up the pins with a glass pencil. I put the rectifier back in and gradually wound up the power on the Variac to reform the electrolytics. That did the trick, with a loud hum now, but that's for another day! Incidentally, I can't see any glow from the cathode area - maybe that's normal for this valve. Thanks for your help again. Best regards Dave

6th May 2015, 9:12 pm	#18
Hammonds Heptode Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 574	Re: Identity of this tape recorder Hi All I've just removed the tape heads, which appear completely shot, with a groove 1/4 inch wide worn down through the brass shielding. Thus, with that and the absence of a circuit diagram of this particular model, I have reluctantly decided to call it a day. Thanks anyway. Mods - can you close this thread, please. Dave