Which was the earliest transistor radios in UK - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

tin0gauge · 27th Jan 2019, 1:14 pm

Hello was it the PAM 720 or the Pye P123BQ both of which I have and are similar but with different transistors ? in which order were these released ? and what came before them please ?

Herald1360 · 27th Jan 2019, 1:32 pm

Earliest was the PAM 710 in 1956. PAM 720 was the P123BQ lookalike, both 1957.

snowman_al · 27th Jan 2019, 1:58 pm

As above.

Nice Pamphonic history here: http://www.pamphonic.co.uk/index.html

tin0gauge · 27th Jan 2019, 2:16 pm

Thank you very useful link.

Radio Wrangler · 27th Jan 2019, 3:14 pm

Wasn't the Emerson imported? An uncle had one

David

Paul_RK · 27th Jan 2019, 6:25 pm

We had a thread a couple of years ago about the earliest British transistor sets,

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=136143 ,

for which I used "Radio! Radio!" (3rd edition) to compile a timeline of those released by the end of 1957:

Mar. 1956 - Pam 710.
Jan. 1957 - Pye P123BQ
Apr. 1957 - Pam 720
May 1957 - Cossor 546
June 1957 - HMV 1410 / Marconi P60B (valve/transistor hybrids)
Perdio PR1
Aug. 1957 - GEC BC1650
Sept. 1957 - Cossor 561 (Traveller's Friend)
Nov. 1957 - KB OP21 Rhapsody
Dec. 1957 - Ace TR257 Courier
1957 unspecified - Vidor CN440 (Gem).

A few US manufacturers produced sets prior to the Pam 710. Not sure if Emerson was among them, but there were some British-built Emerson products a bit later, say around 1960.

Paul

G6Tanuki · 27th Jan 2019, 9:29 pm

From memory, some of the first Pam transistor-radios had a lower-than-usual IF [315KHz?] because Mullard/Philips - who were the people behind Pam - were having 'yield' problems with their transistors and they could not reliably produce enough transistors that would operate reliably at the more-traditional 450-470KHz IF.

[early transistor manufacture was a hit-and-miss game: you made a batch, then tested each one individually for gain, noise, frequency-response and 'type-marked' them depending on how good they were. In a batch of 100 you might get 4 or 5 that were good-enough for RF amp/frequency-changer service, another ten that had poorer HF response but would do as IF amps, another 20 that could amplify at audio, and so on. Those that didn't come up to spec were often sold to hobbyists as unbranded red/green/white-spot transistors with no guarantee of actual performance. Some manufacturers even sold off their deeply-underperforming transistors with a couple of their leads tied together for use as signal-diodes...]

Graham G3ZVT · 27th Jan 2019, 9:42 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul_RK

A few US manufacturers produced sets prior to the Pam 710. Not sure if Emerson was among them, but there were some British-built Emerson products a bit later, say around 1960.

Paul

Indeed. I was allowed to borrow an Emerson 888 Vanguard to play with in 1961. It had a fixed 1500m LW setting. Quite a valuable item for a child's plaything.

It was the subject of my first post on this forum.

Richard_FM · 27th Jan 2019, 9:52 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

From memory, some of the first Pam transistor-radios had a lower-than-usual IF [315KHz?] because Mullard/Philips - who were the people behind Pam - were having 'yield' problems with their transistors and they could not reliably produce enough transistors that would operate reliably at the more-traditional 450-470KHz IF.

[early transistor manufacture was a hit-and-miss game: you made a batch, then tested each one individually for gain, noise, frequency-response and 'type-marked' them depending on how good they were. In a batch of 100 you might get 4 or 5 that were good-enough for RF amp/frequency-changer service, another ten that had poorer HF response but would do as IF amps, another 20 that could amplify at audio, and so on. Those that didn't come up to spec were often sold to hobbyists as unbranded red/green/white-spot transistors with no guarantee of actual performance. Some manufacturers even sold off their deeply-underperforming transistors with a couple of their leads tied together for use as signal-diodes...]

I heard Sinclair used to buy bags of reject transistors from Plessey to grade them for their kit radios.

Paul_RK · 27th Jan 2019, 10:43 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

...Some manufacturers even sold off their deeply-underperforming transistors with a couple of their leads tied together for use as signal-diodes...]

And some radio manufacturers (well, one at least...) used them as such, and included them in the transistor count to boot.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/fidelity_fairline.html

Paul

russell_w_b · 27th Jan 2019, 11:31 pm

I have an Ultra 'Transistor Six' made in 1956. It uses Ediswan XA101 'top-hat' transistors. Still works a treat!

Paul_RK · 28th Jan 2019, 1:10 am

I've one too when I find it, but I think the model dates from 1958 rather than '56 - apparently an August '58 release according to ERT.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=137814

Cobaltblue · 28th Jan 2019, 6:47 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

From memory, some of the first Pam transistor-radios had a lower-than-usual IF [315KHz?] because Mullard/Philips - who were the people behind Pam - were having 'yield' problems with their transistors and they could not reliably produce enough transistors that would operate reliably at the more-traditional 450-470KHz IF.
..]

I dont think PAM were tied up with Mullard / Philip's at this time they were part of PYE and the transistors were in house Newmarket types (Also PYE)

PYE was taken over by EKCO around -1960 if memory serves and in turn by Philips in 1963 .

Cheers

Mike T

'LIVEWIRE?' · 28th Jan 2019, 10:10 am

Was it not EKCO which was taken over by PYE, not the other way round?

russell_w_b · 28th Jan 2019, 10:40 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul_RK

I've one too when I find it, but I think the model dates from 1958 rather than '56...

My mistake - my set must date from then too; just had a look in Pat Hawker's 'Radio and TV Servicing'. But the Ediswan transistors within have transistors of 1956 vintage, hence my earlier presumption about the date of the set.

Cobaltblue · 28th Jan 2019, 10:45 am

I think its was a merger in 1960 to form a new company British Electronic Industries but indeed by 1962 British Electronic Industries had complete control of EKCO.

Philips acquired PYE after a lengthy battle in 1967.

Lesson not to type things from memory

Cheers

Mike T

AC/HL · 28th Jan 2019, 1:16 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

Some manufacturers even sold off their deeply-underperforming transistors with a couple of their leads tied together for use as signal-diodes...]

As befitting their name, Newmarket Transistors never produced a diode. It was they who strapped transistors as diodes. Possibly rejects given the state of the art back then, but I've never seen that stated anywhere.

Edward Huggins · 28th Jan 2019, 2:04 pm

As early as 1956 there was no direct connection between Pye and Philips.
Pye released the version quite deliberately badged as PAM, in case their very early venture into transistors had nationwide teething problems. Old C O Stanley would not take the risk of damaging the Pye brand. When things looked more favourable by the end of 1956, the Pye version was introduced in 1957 with more developed germaniums. He was a canny old bxxxer!

27th Jan 2019, 1:14 pm	#1
tin0gauge Tetrode Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Guildford, Surrey, UK. Posts: 82	Which was the earliest transistor radios in UK Hello was it the PAM 720 or the Pye P123BQ both of which I have and are similar but with different transistors ? in which order were these released ? and what came before them please ?

27th Jan 2019, 1:32 pm	#2
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: Which was the earliest transistor radios in UK Earliest was the PAM 710 in 1956. PAM 720 was the P123BQ lookalike, both 1957. __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

27th Jan 2019, 1:58 pm	#3
snowman_al Octode Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Llandeilo, West Wales, UK. Posts: 1,092	Re: Which was the earliest transistor radios in UK As above. Nice Pamphonic history here: http://www.pamphonic.co.uk/index.html

27th Jan 2019, 2:16 pm	#4
tin0gauge Tetrode Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Guildford, Surrey, UK. Posts: 82	Re: Which was the earliest transistor radios in UK Thank you very useful link.

27th Jan 2019, 3:14 pm	#5
Radio Wrangler Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Fife, Scotland, UK. Posts: 22,858	Re: Which was the earliest transistor radios in UK Wasn't the Emerson imported? An uncle had one David __________________ Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done

27th Jan 2019, 6:25 pm	#6
Paul_RK Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Fakenham, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 4,255	Re: Which was the earliest transistor radios in UK We had a thread a couple of years ago about the earliest British transistor sets, https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=136143 , for which I used "Radio! Radio!" (3rd edition) to compile a timeline of those released by the end of 1957: Mar. 1956 - Pam 710. Jan. 1957 - Pye P123BQ Apr. 1957 - Pam 720 May 1957 - Cossor 546 June 1957 - HMV 1410 / Marconi P60B (valve/transistor hybrids) Perdio PR1 Aug. 1957 - GEC BC1650 Sept. 1957 - Cossor 561 (Traveller's Friend) Nov. 1957 - KB OP21 Rhapsody Dec. 1957 - Ace TR257 Courier 1957 unspecified - Vidor CN440 (Gem). A few US manufacturers produced sets prior to the Pam 710. Not sure if Emerson was among them, but there were some British-built Emerson products a bit later, say around 1960. Paul

27th Jan 2019, 9:29 pm	#7
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 13,995	Re: Which was the earliest transistor radios in UK From memory, some of the first Pam transistor-radios had a lower-than-usual IF [315KHz?] because Mullard/Philips - who were the people behind Pam - were having 'yield' problems with their transistors and they could not reliably produce enough transistors that would operate reliably at the more-traditional 450-470KHz IF. [early transistor manufacture was a hit-and-miss game: you made a batch, then tested each one individually for gain, noise, frequency-response and 'type-marked' them depending on how good they were. In a batch of 100 you might get 4 or 5 that were good-enough for RF amp/frequency-changer service, another ten that had poorer HF response but would do as IF amps, another 20 that could amplify at audio, and so on. Those that didn't come up to spec were often sold to hobbyists as unbranded red/green/white-spot transistors with no guarantee of actual performance. Some manufacturers even sold off their deeply-underperforming transistors with a couple of their leads tied together for use as signal-diodes...]

27th Jan 2019, 11:31 pm	#11
russell_w_b Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK. Posts: 3,687	Re: Which was the earliest transistor radios in UK I have an Ultra 'Transistor Six' made in 1956. It uses Ediswan XA101 'top-hat' transistors. Still works a treat! __________________ Regds, Russell W. B. G4YLI.

28th Jan 2019, 1:10 am	#12
Paul_RK Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Fakenham, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 4,255	Re: Which was the earliest transistor radios in UK I've one too when I find it, but I think the model dates from 1958 rather than '56 - apparently an August '58 release according to ERT. https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=137814

28th Jan 2019, 10:10 am	#14
'LIVEWIRE?' Rest in Peace Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton) Posts: 7,306	Re: Which was the earliest transistor radios in UK Was it not EKCO which was taken over by PYE, not the other way round?

28th Jan 2019, 10:45 am	#16
Cobaltblue Moderator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Exeter, Devon and Poole, Dorset UK. Posts: 6,857	Re: Which was the earliest transistor radios in UK I think its was a merger in 1960 to form a new company British Electronic Industries but indeed by 1962 British Electronic Industries had complete control of EKCO. Philips acquired PYE after a lengthy battle in 1967. Lesson not to type things from memory Cheers Mike T __________________ Invisible airwaves crackle with life or at least they used to Mike T BVWS member. www.cossor.co.uk

28th Jan 2019, 2:04 pm	#18
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,326	Re: Which was the earliest transistor radios in UK As early as 1956 there was no direct connection between Pye and Philips. Pye released the version quite deliberately badged as PAM, in case their very early venture into transistors had nationwide teething problems. Old C O Stanley would not take the risk of damaging the Pye brand. When things looked more favourable by the end of 1956, the Pye version was introduced in 1957 with more developed germaniums. He was a canny old bxxxer! __________________ Edward.