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General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc. |
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25th Feb 2018, 11:19 pm | #21 |
Dekatron
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
I can't deny the logic of running cost of an A+++ 'fridge versus my old C rated Hotpoint..but do wonder how the extra efficiency is achieved. Better insulation technology? Thicker insulation? If it's thicker insulation is the cubic capacity compromised?
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25th Feb 2018, 11:38 pm | #22 | |
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
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Compounding that, the manufacturing M/O now is that the items are made to be "life cycled" and thrown away (or recycled) after a known period. There is a lot less support with documentation and spare parts with appliances now. Also since now most electronic items contain programmed PIC micros, where the firmware is concealed within them, never released by the manufacturer either, they will lose their function when their flash memories fail or the electrolytic capacitors don't take them out first. Everything is heading to recycling, not repair. There is a very interesting documentary on this topic, it is on YouTube, called "The Light Bulb Conspiracy" . It is not just about light bulbs, it points out how in the early days light bulb manufactures conspired to set the life of the lamp at 1000 hrs. It was possible, easily, to make them last much longer than that. Also, a number of items these days are programmed to have a limited usable life by their own firmware. Or items like print counter IC's in printers count to the max an deactivate the printer. The irony is that our rubbish dumps are being filled with dead whiteware only less than 3 yrs old, often with green energy rating stickers on them. It would be better for the world if the appliances were forced to have 10 or 20 year guarantees for function, and scrap the green energy ratings. The enthusiasts of these green initiatives forget about the increased entropy and pollution manufacturing a new appliance because the first one was a poor quality build with a limited life. Last edited by Argus25; 25th Feb 2018 at 11:46 pm. |
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26th Feb 2018, 12:10 am | #23 | |
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
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As you say, different strokes. Sending the old Lec to be scrapped, shopping for a replacement and having it delivered, reflecting on the materials, energy and human time involved in its production and sale and delivery, and getting used to seeing it there and not hearing it, then quite possibly going through the whole process again two or five or ten years later... is perhaps about as thoroughly unappealing to me as going around in a patched blazer was to you. As you also say, life's too short. It only took me about twenty minutes to find and fit the washers. As Howard Devoto put it, some will pay for what others pay to avoid... Paul Last edited by Paul_RK; 26th Feb 2018 at 12:17 am. |
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26th Feb 2018, 12:45 am | #24 | |
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
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Makes me think that if everyone were to adopt this philosophy there would be no vintage radios (and the like) left in the world for the UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration forum members to repair and restore... Steve.
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Those who lack imagination cannot imagine what is lacking... Last edited by fetteler; 26th Feb 2018 at 12:52 am. Reason: remove PS |
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26th Feb 2018, 1:04 am | #25 |
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
I haven't seen the lightbulb conspiracy video, but it's something that crops up periodically. As with anything in engineering, compromises have to be made in connection with light output versus life. It is indeed possible to make bulbs that had longer lives by running them at lower temperatures with consequential reduction in light output. Even then, the envelopes of filament lamps would progressively blacken over time due to deposited Carbon or Tungsten, resulting in loss of light output. I have a couple of Edwardian books on electric lighting where replacement was recommended when bulbs had reached their "smashing point", the point at which the light output had fallen by 20% relative to a new lamp, rather than when the filament failed. For a given level of illumination, it was more economical to use brighter bulbs with shorter lives than dimmer bulbs with longer lives, especially in the early days when electricity was expensive. At that time (circa 1914) Osram Tungsten filament lamps with a nominal 1000 hour life, were often found in practice to have lives (to filament failure) of around 2000 hours.
I still have a couple of Atlas double life GLS bulbs that were on sale in the 1970's that have a stated life of 2000 hours. They are noticeably dimmer than corresponding standard bulbs of the same wattage (which is why they remain unused), so a 100W gives the light of a 60W and a 60W that of 40W bulb. AFAIR they were recommended for use in situations where replacement was not straightforward, such as high up in stair wells. Getting replacement parts is indeed an obstacle with much modern stuff. I have what was at the time the top of the range JVC DV camcorder whose manual settings no longer work. Apparently this is due to failure of a surface mounted electrolytic capacitor. This seems to be a common fault with JVC camcorders of that era, and spare boards are no longer available. |
26th Feb 2018, 9:22 am | #26 |
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
I've started reverse engineering and repairing SMD based boards. Turns out it's not all that difficult and the results are as fruitful as any other repair. Some of the smaller ones are impossible to do by hand without special equipment i.e. 0201 so I'd probably scrap those. Parts availability is surprisingly not a problem and in fact the parts are much cheaper in SMD format is a good thing. Aliexpress and eBay are a source of all sorts of esoteric parts that the main distributors don't stock.
Tools I use are simply a Weller TCP with a 3.2mm chisel tip, tweezers, braid and a roll of solder. Nothing fancy! Honestly, I think the only barrier to repairs versus replace is the cost proposition. If your time is directly equivalent to money in any way then it only makes sense to burn the time on repairing something if you're in profit in some way i.e. from not spending the time working to pay for the replacement. This is rare so it's probably not worth it for most people. Personally I like doing difficult manual tasks so it's more like doing a crossword for me, and a lot more productive |
26th Feb 2018, 9:36 am | #27 | ||
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
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TBH I would say that by removing from the market a load of old tatty junk the value of other-people's old slightly-less-tatty junk will be increased! |
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26th Feb 2018, 10:08 am | #28 |
Hexode
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
I have bought, for the princely sum of £3.12, a chainsaw chain sharpening tool, will sharpen the chains myself. Yes, I know, time is money too ... but only when diverted from another activity that brings in income. Can't bear the thought of throwing the old chains in the metal recycling at the tip.
I suspect that much modern environmental theory with respect to resource management is flawed. I very much doubt that a battery-laden electric car is, over an entire lifetime, less resource- (including energy) hungry than, say, an old Land Rover. Sure, the 7.2 V8 I had in my Interceptor was ridiculously thirsty, but the car will very likely live for pretty much ever. I agree with G6Tanuki re. things like cups and saucers. One might as well have good stuff. I can recall my grandparents never using their 'best', which seems such a self-denying shame. But there is no doubt that, irrespective of innovation, the planet is a finite resource. And there's something very pleasant about repurposing items, giving them a new lease. Also, Freegle/Freecycle is a great way of avoiding landfill. Regards, Richard |
26th Feb 2018, 10:32 am | #29 |
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
True, but something of a sink of time if there are many items involved, and not easily used when there's a house some way off to be cleared.
We had to empty my late mother's house in 2012, without any ready option of absorbing anything into our own beyond what could be carried on a train. Fortunately we found a local business which cleared houses taking a flexible view to their contents: it had a connected second-hand / antique shop which absorbed all suitable items, some things went to auction, the owners had a market stall for smaller odds and ends, and the local tip was a last resort for whatever wasn't worth selling. The charge - or payment - for clearing the house depended on an assessment of what was there, for us a modest charge since there were a fair few items considered saleable but nothing of great value. Again fortunately, a nearby member of this forum had been willing a few years earlier to retrieve and make use of the stash of cathode ray tubes (an MW31-74 and various 14" and 17" types) that I'd deposited in the loft there in the 1970s. Last edited by Paul_RK; 26th Feb 2018 at 11:00 am. |
26th Feb 2018, 11:52 am | #30 | |
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
Macro-economists will argue that economic growth, which is held to be necessary for increasing global prosperity, depends on the continued selling of things. In principle these could be repaired/repurposed things but those activities are hard to scale up to a level which is large enough to be economically significant. Production of new items, on the other hand, can be scaled up quite easily.
Quote:
Cheers, GJ
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26th Feb 2018, 12:23 pm | #31 |
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
The population, back in the stone age was, I suspect, very much smaller than today. Disposable income was also a bit lacking, so whatever they did didn't have the scale of effect we reached after the agricultural and industrial revolutions.
David
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26th Feb 2018, 12:38 pm | #32 | |
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
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https://www.thermofisher.com/blog/mi...w-mother-lode/ http://theconversation.com/treasure-...ond-time-59667 |
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26th Feb 2018, 12:39 pm | #33 | |
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
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I am sitting in my own (wooden) 'crossword' as I type. Hollie-the-Collie's with me & I'm doing what I enjoy doing. Life doesn't get much better. Guy
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"What a depressingly stupid machine." [Marvin: HHGTTG] Last edited by Nymrod121; 26th Feb 2018 at 12:45 pm. Reason: philosophy |
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26th Feb 2018, 12:52 pm | #34 |
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
Surprisingly similar to my corner, albeit much better lit! Life is indeed great when I'm in it
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26th Feb 2018, 2:11 pm | #35 | |
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
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Colin. |
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26th Feb 2018, 2:23 pm | #36 |
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
If it's a redevelopment presumably the wood in the skip is old stuff taken out of the house?
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26th Feb 2018, 2:59 pm | #37 | |
Octode
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
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I must admit to being someone who keeps all sorts of old junk - again, my parents lived through WW2 and make-do-and-mend was very much their style. As an example, my mother kept the blackout curtains for some years after the war and I was eventually the recipient of a "Hopalong Cassidy" outfit made from them. A couple of "cowboy" pistols and a black felt "cowboy" hat and I was the bees knees and envied by my friends. [NB. For those that don't remember, Hopalong Cassidy was a Western character who was always putting things right and wore a completely black outfit] Colin. |
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26th Feb 2018, 3:19 pm | #38 |
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
I'm proud of my make do and mend lifestyle and background - wouldn't have it any other way There's tremendous pleasure from keeping stuff going, improvising and making things from scratch - not just pleasure but I believe it to be creative. As a result, we (my partner Angie and I) end up living in a world that is (in a large part) unique to us and has our personalities and souls within it.
Steve.
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26th Feb 2018, 3:33 pm | #39 |
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
If you accept that labour is a resource too, and a very expensive and finite one, the equation changes (unless it's your own labour of course)
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26th Feb 2018, 3:37 pm | #40 |
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Re: Repair vs Replace; Wasted Resources
In my line, of course, a lot of the stuff just isn't available new, so repair and refurbishment comes with the territory. Not sure if I don't enjoy it more than doing the job sometimes...
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