Collaro 456 Record Deck

[GrahamN]

I have one of these decks as part of a Pye Black Box that I am (slowly) restoring. When power is applied the turntable starts turning, then cuts off a few moments later and moving the arm, trying a record etc. all makes no difference.

Everything seems OK (to my very limited experience), and there are no obvious sticking parts etc.

I've been looking for a service guide or something so that I can check properly, but can't find anything.

Is there any servicing information available on this deck does anyone know?

Thanks

Graham

[Darren-UK]

Hi Graham,

You can use service data for the RC54 - available from Paul Stenning. But first, perhaps someone else will confirm for us; I think the 456 is just the four-speed version of the RC54 - so that latter data should suffice.

Getting to the problem, when the deck dies does it shut down mechanically and electrically or just electrically?

Once died, is the amplifier still alive or is everything dead?

How do you get it to start again? By powering off then on again?

If you can answer the above questions we may be able to pinpoint the problem.

[GrahamN]

Thanks Darren

The deck is out of the player at the moment as I have been working on the amp, so I will need to refit it. From memory, though, it runs for a short while then shuts down as though the record has finished and the arm returned. The shutdown occurs as soon as the arm is moved towards the record. I'm pretty sure it is a mechanical problem - the problem is everything looks right underneath.

I've almost finished the amp rebuild (I picked up an EZ81 a short while ago), so will be refitting that later today or tomorrow, so I can check the exact symptoms then if it helps.

[GrahamN]

Right - I've just refitted the deck and the exact problem is as follows:

With the speed set at 45, and switched to automatic - turn the start switch and the turntable revolves, the arm lifts, the central spindle activates to drop a record, then the arm drops straight down and the turntable switches off. The arm itself doesn't even try (it seems) to move towards the record.

Changing speed makes no difference at all.

Switching to manual is almost the same, but the manual / automatic switch moves back to auto as the turntable stops (this may be normal - I'm not familiar with the deck).

I may well have a problem with the cartridge or the amp as there is no output when gently touching the stylus with my finger, but I'm quite happy with the steps I need to take to check and resolve that - it's the turntable that I'm struggling with.

Thanks

[julie_m]

This sounds as though it's falsely sensing a "no more records" condition.

As long as there are records on the stack, the steadying arm is held up by them, a few millimetres to a centimetre above its rest position. After the last record has dropped, the steadying arm drops to its rest position.

So, start looking at the steadying arm, and in particular what moves is at rises and falls.

[GrahamN]

That's exactly where I looked - and everything seems OK (hence my search for a manual to check in more detail). I have also tried adding records, moving the arm by hand etc.

Also - I would have expected switching to manual to have swiched that 'out of circuit' so to speak. But perhaps I just don't understand the mechanics well enough.

I've also noticed that there is no circlip holding the platter down, so presumably someone has dismantled this in the past.

I'm about to go out for the day, so unless there are any other ideas to try I will download the RC54 data tomorrow and hope it is similar enough for me to follow.

Thanks

[Darren-UK]

It does indeed sound like an overarm problem as AJS says (steadying arm = overarm) and thus the machine 'thinks' there's no records to play.

Try it with one record on the turntable BUT with the overarm swung clear (ie in the position it'd be if you were stacking records) and leave it there. Put a record directly onto the turntable, start the motor (but don't select the 'auto' position), place tonearm on record. With this setup, play should repeat continuously; tonearm should lift at the end of the record, swing to its rest position, then move back and replay.

If it does the above, then you almost certainly do have an overarm problem. If so you'll have to inspect the overarm linkage beneath the deck; something will not be engaging for whatever reason, or there could be a weak, broken or missing spring on the associated linkage. If you remove the deck again, find some way of keeping it horizontal whilst being able to view the underside - move the overarm up and down whilst in its 'play' position and you'll soon see what is or is not happening.

The missing circlip certainly suggests someone's been in there before you, but for what purpose is anyone's guess. The turntable will still operate minus the clip, providing it sits fully down on its bearing and the action of the drive from the motor doesn't cause it to lift.

I probably won't have time today but I've got a player with a 456 in FWO here, so if you continue to have problems I'll remove it and then describe precisely how the mechanism operates and thus what could cause the trouble.

[geofy]

The missing circlip could be the clue, if the platter is not fully located would this also affect the spindle not locating properly and operating the 'last record dropped' lever/cam. The action is the same as if the control has been operated with no record present so the arm instead of going to the record, goes back to the rest. This must be some sort of cam that moves into place after the last record has been played and the arm lifts off at the end and returns to the rest. If there was another record ready to drop, this cam would hold off and this isn't happening so this part needs to be found. It could be a sticky or seized bush causing the problem. Not always easy to find until you can see which parts move in relation to other parts. Or something not located correctly, unless there is something like a broken or missing spring.

Geof

[GrahamN]

Moving the steadying arm makes no difference - though it's quite tricky to get the deck in a position to see exactly what is happening underneath, there is no obvious piece moving wrongly, nor anything obviously missing.

I did notice the platter has a piece of metal 'sticking out' at the centre, and it looks as though that may once have been longer and has broken, but I may be clutching at straws there. I've added a picture in case anyone can tell me if it looks wrong - I can't really see what it does.

To take a really good look, though, I need to take the deck out of the case. I assume the motor is 240v, in which case I can probably make up an extension lead and temporarily mount the deck upside down - though I presume the platter needs to be in place, so will need to try and find a suitable circlip to stop it falling off.

[Michael Maurice]

The piece of metal you refer to is to operate the change cycle when the trip pawl is moved into place, either by using the auto starting or by the ecord coming to the end.

I'm sure others will agree its not going to affect your problem as it is used only at the very start of the change cycle.

I also believe these decks suffer from dried grease, like the Garrard and BSR decks of that era, so please check this as this is more likely to be the cause of your problem.

If you like I'll get a RC456 turntable out and measure that metal bit for you.

[GrahamN]

Thanks Michael

I thought it probably wouldn't affect things, unless something else was also missing.

I think I'm going to get the deck out, get the data sheet, and then strip and clean (and check) while I have a reference to be sure I can get it all back together correctly.

[GrahamN]

Right - that was easier than expected!

I took the deck out this morning, gave it a wipe over, and checked everything that looked as though it should move could in fact do so. I then connected the mains directly to the motor and tried again, whereupon everything worked exactly as it should have done.

I can only assume something had jammed under the deck and my cleaning and moving bits cleared it.

I'm now going to pull out the amp and check that.

Thanks for the advice so far - I may be back once I've taken a look at the amp and cartridge.

[record-changer]

Note that the Collaro 54 and RC456 use the overarm in an unusual way if you have the large hole spindle.

You load the records, and then place the tip of the overarm against the edge of the stack (not on top of the stack). Here is a photo of it loaded correctly: