Reel to reel tape - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

LukeG83 · 2nd Aug 2017, 8:37 pm

I've just fixed a Ferguson reel to reel machine. I tried one of the tapes it came with that played with the announcer welcoming listeners to the Midlands Home Service, and morning service for ascentiontide then the tape snapped! It seems to keep snapping! Is there anyway the above can be dated, and also how is it best to play a fragile tape? I would like to keep the contents for nostalgic purposes. I think it dates from the 50s?

Restoration73 · 2nd Aug 2017, 10:23 pm

Early tape could be acetate base (or even paper) so if the take up tension is too high it
may snap (or it is sticking to the pressure pads). Can you rewind or fast forward from
reel to reel, maybe avoiding the head block completely, if the tape does not snap
the fault must be corrected. Other wise play it back on another known good machine.

emeritus · 2nd Aug 2017, 10:45 pm

You could try applying friction ( eg by using a finger) a finger to the takeup spool to allow it to exert only just enough tension to spool the tape. I used to have to do this when playing Kodak Quadruple-play tape (800' on 3 1/4" spool) that I used to use on my battery tape recorder on a mains-powered machine to prevent it stretching the tape.

ben · 3rd Aug 2017, 12:24 am

certainly sounds like an acetate tape. Check also that there are no joins made with sellotape, which will have oozed and makes the tape layers stick. In any case, make sure the back tension on your deck is not too high. This may be caused by brakes sticking, mechanical misalignment, etc. But if all that is in order, it is likely that the tape is just fragile.

As I am sure you are aware, you must use proper splicing tape to join audio tape.
Copy this tape to another as soon as possible.

dave walsh · 3rd Aug 2017, 12:54 am

Micro-pore tape [all good chemists] is a very good low adhesive substitute.
Ascentiontide seems to be the period of 10 days between Ascension Day [May 25th in 2017] and Whit Sunday. I thought it would be a Beeb religious program at first but apparently not

Regional programming came back in 1945 to 1967 when the Home Service was designated Radio 4! That gives you 22 Ascension Days to choose from overall When you repair the the tape and listen to it all, there may perhaps be some clues as to the actual year in a church service or news broadcast

.

Dave W

quiberon · 3rd Aug 2017, 1:09 am

Micropore should NOT be used at all, apart from the fact it will eventually ooze, it is way too thick. I believe you were thinking of Scotch Magic Tape, that is thinner than Micropore. But even that will suffer the same fate eventually.

The only tape to use is the proper splicing tape.

Ted Kendall · 3rd Aug 2017, 8:48 am

Morning Service was a religious programme.

Splicing tape is the only thing to use for the purpose - but use a block to align the tape ends - the HF loss over a wonky splice is not subtle, especially at domestic speeds.

julie_m · 3rd Aug 2017, 2:48 pm

You haven't said where the tape is snapping, which could give an important clue.

If the tape is consistently snapping between the capstan and take-up spool, that indicates excessive take-up tension. Pay the tape out over the edge of the machine and into a box on the floor, and record the programme material onto a computer using the Open Source software Audacity.

If the tape is consistently snapping between the supply spool and the heads, that indicates excessive back-tension. You may be able to get away with making some alternative arrangement for supporting the supply spool.

quiberon · 3rd Aug 2017, 3:14 pm

Just curious: What is the model number of the Ferguson tape recorder?

Edward Huggins · 3rd Aug 2017, 4:03 pm

Your Ferguson reel-to-reel us likely to be from the early to mid 1960s, probably with a BSR TD2 tape deck. Thus the tape is liable to be of similar vintage. Tempering the take up reel spin speed with your hand is a wise precaution.

paulsherwin · 3rd Aug 2017, 4:23 pm

Magic Tape can be used to splice in an emergency and is much better than Sellotape, but shouldn't be used routinely or for anything important.

I wouldn't expect Micropore to be suitable.

dave walsh · 3rd Aug 2017, 5:30 pm

Ok, well I'm surprised about the micro pore comments

I first mentioned it quite a long time ago when there seemed to be a concern about the increasing scarcity of splicing tape [most people don't splice anymore] simply because it appeared to work for me. It's medical suitability [for sensitive skin] seems to be based on a very significant reduction in the amount of adhesive in use. Nobody's come back to say "that stuff you recommended was a disaster" but perhaps they will now

I would like to hear more about what's actually on that tape though. I think I nearly met Luke once but he didn't make it to Rammy in the end.

Dave

LukeG83 · 10th Aug 2017, 11:56 am

Hi Dave, yes we did almost meet! Still in Garstang so perhaps our paths will cross again (especially if you still have BBC bits(!))

I have some old reel to reel tapes I can give away too - just need to check there isn't any content I want to transfer first. Might be of interest to someone as they have BBC Schools recordings on them.

Will try some Micro-pore tape!

2nd Aug 2017, 8:37 pm	#1
LukeG83 Hexode Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Garstang, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 283	Reel to reel tape I've just fixed a Ferguson reel to reel machine. I tried one of the tapes it came with that played with the announcer welcoming listeners to the Midlands Home Service, and morning service for ascentiontide then the tape snapped! It seems to keep snapping! Is there anyway the above can be dated, and also how is it best to play a fragile tape? I would like to keep the contents for nostalgic purposes. I think it dates from the 50s?

2nd Aug 2017, 10:23 pm	#2
Restoration73 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK. Posts: 2,801	Re: Reel to reel tape Early tape could be acetate base (or even paper) so if the take up tension is too high it may snap (or it is sticking to the pressure pads). Can you rewind or fast forward from reel to reel, maybe avoiding the head block completely, if the tape does not snap the fault must be corrected. Other wise play it back on another known good machine.

2nd Aug 2017, 10:45 pm	#3
emeritus Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK. Posts: 5,339	Re: Reel to reel tape You could try applying friction ( eg by using a finger) a finger to the takeup spool to allow it to exert only just enough tension to spool the tape. I used to have to do this when playing Kodak Quadruple-play tape (800' on 3 1/4" spool) that I used to use on my battery tape recorder on a mains-powered machine to prevent it stretching the tape.

3rd Aug 2017, 12:24 am	#4
ben Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK Posts: 7,498	Re: Reel to reel tape certainly sounds like an acetate tape. Check also that there are no joins made with sellotape, which will have oozed and makes the tape layers stick. In any case, make sure the back tension on your deck is not too high. This may be caused by brakes sticking, mechanical misalignment, etc. But if all that is in order, it is likely that the tape is just fragile. As I am sure you are aware, you must use proper splicing tape to join audio tape. Copy this tape to another as soon as possible. __________________ Regards, Ben.

3rd Aug 2017, 12:54 am	#5
dave walsh Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex. Posts: 5,817	Re: Reel to reel tape Micro-pore tape [all good chemists] is a very good low adhesive substitute. Ascentiontide seems to be the period of 10 days between Ascension Day [May 25th in 2017] and Whit Sunday. I thought it would be a Beeb religious program at first but apparently not Regional programming came back in 1945 to 1967 when the Home Service was designated Radio 4! That gives you 22 Ascension Days to choose from overall When you repair the the tape and listen to it all, there may perhaps be some clues as to the actual year in a church service or news broadcast. Dave W

3rd Aug 2017, 1:09 am	#6
quiberon Triode Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 44	Re: Reel to reel tape Micropore should NOT be used at all, apart from the fact it will eventually ooze, it is way too thick. I believe you were thinking of Scotch Magic Tape, that is thinner than Micropore. But even that will suffer the same fate eventually. The only tape to use is the proper splicing tape.

3rd Aug 2017, 8:48 am	#7
Ted Kendall Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 3,670	Re: Reel to reel tape Morning Service was a religious programme. Splicing tape is the only thing to use for the purpose - but use a block to align the tape ends - the HF loss over a wonky splice is not subtle, especially at domestic speeds.

3rd Aug 2017, 2:48 pm	#8
julie_m Dekatron Join Date: May 2008 Location: Derby, UK. Posts: 7,735	Re: Reel to reel tape You haven't said where the tape is snapping, which could give an important clue. If the tape is consistently snapping between the capstan and take-up spool, that indicates excessive take-up tension. Pay the tape out over the edge of the machine and into a box on the floor, and record the programme material onto a computer using the Open Source software Audacity. If the tape is consistently snapping between the supply spool and the heads, that indicates excessive back-tension. You may be able to get away with making some alternative arrangement for supporting the supply spool. __________________ If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.

3rd Aug 2017, 3:14 pm	#9
quiberon Triode Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 44	Re: Reel to reel tape Just curious: What is the model number of the Ferguson tape recorder?

3rd Aug 2017, 4:03 pm	#10
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: Reel to reel tape Your Ferguson reel-to-reel us likely to be from the early to mid 1960s, probably with a BSR TD2 tape deck. Thus the tape is liable to be of similar vintage. Tempering the take up reel spin speed with your hand is a wise precaution. __________________ Edward.

3rd Aug 2017, 4:23 pm	#11
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,944	Re: Reel to reel tape Magic Tape can be used to splice in an emergency and is much better than Sellotape, but shouldn't be used routinely or for anything important. I wouldn't expect Micropore to be suitable.

3rd Aug 2017, 5:30 pm	#12
dave walsh Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex. Posts: 5,817	Re: Reel to reel tape Ok, well I'm surprised about the micro pore comments I first mentioned it quite a long time ago when there seemed to be a concern about the increasing scarcity of splicing tape [most people don't splice anymore] simply because it appeared to work for me. It's medical suitability [for sensitive skin] seems to be based on a very significant reduction in the amount of adhesive in use. Nobody's come back to say "that stuff you recommended was a disaster" but perhaps they will now I would like to hear more about what's actually on that tape though. I think I nearly met Luke once but he didn't make it to Rammy in the end. Dave

10th Aug 2017, 11:56 am	#13
LukeG83 Hexode Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Garstang, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 283	Re: Reel to reel tape Hi Dave, yes we did almost meet! Still in Garstang so perhaps our paths will cross again (especially if you still have BBC bits(!)) I have some old reel to reel tapes I can give away too - just need to check there isn't any content I want to transfer first. Might be of interest to someone as they have BBC Schools recordings on them. Will try some Micro-pore tape!