Beogram 1202 - Repair or replace parts? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

slivercork · 16th Jun 2008, 4:08 pm

Hi - have just purchased a Bang and Olufsen 1202 turntable. I don't yet have the deck but i believe that the motor isn't working. I'm happy to take this on as a repair project as the system cost hardly anything and is in beautiful cosmetic condition (according to the photos anyway!); my question is, is it easier to source a new motor (DC Servo?) and "drop it in" or is it a relatively simple job to strip the motor down and clean out dried lubricant etc? If the later is recommended are there any other things I should look for while it's all opened up?

Any help would be much appreciated.

PS - should point out i have no experience with turntables whatsoever although I'm fairly good with other electronics. Is it best just to send to a repair shop even?

Mike Phelan · 16th Jun 2008, 5:14 pm

I wouldn't worry too much until you can actually handle it and discover what is wrong. You'll get plenty of help here!

Brian R Pateman · 16th Jun 2008, 6:05 pm

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Given that these decks are now around 35 years old (where do the years go?) I suspect that the motor could well be OK, they were a good quality component and didn't lead a hard life. However, the electronics might be suffering from the normal component problems - electrolytics don't last for ever.

As Mike says, wait till you have it on the bench before worrying too much about sourcing a new motor.

We're all here to help.

Regards,

Michael Maurice · 16th Jun 2008, 9:40 pm

I have a 1202 (which soon I'll be selling) it must be similar to the 1200, I don't know what the difference is, but this uses an AC motor and a large drive belt. The motor of course could be seized which means stripping down, cleaning and relubricating, the turntable itself is driven by a large drive belt which may still be available as a spare part from B&O the speed change mechanism could also be seized up. Again, simple stripping and relubricating shouyld be all thats required.

If you want further help, please send me a private message. I'm in NW London.

slivercork · 17th Jun 2008, 10:05 am

Many thanks everyone. I'm picking it up tonight so will let you know more when i've had the chance to open it up! If it does require stripping down and relubricating my next question will be what greases/oils will I require....?

Studio263 · 18th Jun 2008, 6:10 pm

These don't use a servo motor, just a plain old mains two pole asynchronous induction type. By now the whole lot will be seized up solid, so start by stripping everything on the motor / speedchange assembly and cleaning / relubricating it. The shaft about which the speedchange assembly pivots will almost certainly be stuck in the casting with old grease and corrosion, used heat and force(!) to drive it out.

Retrieve the two spherical phosphor-bronze bearings from the motor spindle itself and boil them up in light motor oil (not thicker than 15W40) for a few minutes. Let them cool in the oil and refit them. This should get it going.

The 1200 and 1202 are quite different inside, you are best off repairing what you have (all easy blacksmith type stuff anyway, none of it is that hard). Becasue the faults are caused by the passing of time they are all as bad as one another anyway!

Michael Maurice · 18th Jun 2008, 11:21 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Studio263

The 1200 and 1202 are quite different inside, you are best off repairing what you have (all easy blacksmith type stuff anyway, none of it is that hard). Because the faults are caused by the passing of time they are all as bad as one another anyway!

Except mine has been serviced and last time I checked, it worked!!

slivercork · 24th Jun 2008, 4:21 pm

Hi everyone - still haven't had the time to open the damn thing up and get going on this but there's something else i wonder if you can help me with? The previous owner has clearly made an addition to the deck but i have no idea what it is! My first thought was that it could be a device to prevent the lid from dropping down onto the deck but as the 1202 doesn't have a hinged lid this seems odd - my second thought was that it's part of a brush set up (as per the Michell Transcriptor). To be honest it's not doing any harm but it's cheap and plastic looking (afixed with some type of sticky foam pad) and i'm itching to remove it. Any suggestions? If i do remove it I anticpate a sticky black mark - what should I use to remove this as i'm loathed to use anything that might ruin the brushed aluminium. So far minimal amounts of warm water and fairy liquid have removed the odd sellotape smudges and bought it up very nicely but i can't see that being sufficient for this purpose....

Darren-UK · 24th Jun 2008, 10:09 pm

For convenience I've extracted and thumbnailed one of the two zipped images.

AC/HL · 24th Jun 2008, 11:03 pm

It Looks like the base of a "Dust Bug" or similar device. These had a perspex arm, similar to a pickup arm, but with a brush and velvet pad to collect dust as the record was playing. They were notorious for leaving a stain on the paintwork of the Garrard 301 deck, but may be OK on unpainted metal.
It's of no use without the arm.

Mike Phelan · 25th Jun 2008, 8:48 am

It is definitely a Dust Bug - had a few of them over the years.
Alcohol (IPA, vodka or even meths) should be OK on brushed ally, but don't rub too hard, and test on a part you cannot see (like under the turntable).

hondacxrider · 25th Jun 2008, 9:42 am

I can confirm Mike's analysis I have just removed an identical one from a GP42,again the arm was missing. Alcohol will not harm aluminium. Aluminium is a soft metal though so don't rub too hard. BTW, I came by a B&O cartridge, an SP8, though the test documents inside refer to a SP6, would these be a suitable replacement for your machine. I'll pen on another thread as well to stick to the topic.

ppppenguin · 25th Jun 2008, 9:49 am

As other have said, it's the remains of a Dust Bug. You may find that petrol (lighter fluid) is better than alchohol for getting the mark off. Again it won't harm aluminium. Acetone (nail varnish remover) is an even more potent solvent and that won't harm ali either.

Despite the oft quoted wisdom that it's impossible to completely remove a dust bug mark from a painted Garrard 301 I have successfully done so in the distant past though I can't remember what solvent I used. I think I removed some very slight surface dulling by rubbing very lightly with Brasso. Don't use Brasso on brushed ali!

mastermanx2001 · 25th Jun 2008, 10:28 am

I agree with Jeffrey, have seen many a turntable base plate spoilt by a dust bug being fitted (Cecil Watts Dustbug I seem to recollect). That said, it is quite a good device. If one cam find te rest of the Dust Bug it would not be a bad thing to use. It came with a tube of anti static solution. I may still have a Dust Bug somewhere. Will look and take photos if I find it.

Just found a picture in a 1970 Hi Fi News

geofy · 25th Jun 2008, 11:36 am

I never had the dust bug but have the disc preeners (in three colours) and the parastat along with a nice Garrard SPG-3 stylus pressure setting scale with a brass 5 gram calibration weight. Just wish I still had my Garrard AP76 player and my Goldring Lenco GL69 both of which I sold at silly prices a long time ago.

slivercork · 25th Jun 2008, 1:55 pm

Hi all,

Right i know what to do to get rid of it then! many thanks everyone. In the mean time i've come across someone who's offered up a newly reserviced motor from a Beogram 3000 (a DC Servo motor!). Whilst people have already pointed out in this thread that the 1202 doesn't have a DC motor, all of the literature i can find through the various beogram related websites say that the two models have virtually the same internal mechanics and electronics.....What do i do?!

Michael Maurice · 25th Jun 2008, 4:16 pm

You cant as far as I know fit a DC motor in place of the AC one.

Why dont you post some pictures of the top and underside of the deck, that why we can identify what you have and work from there.

mastermanx2001 · 25th Jun 2008, 4:41 pm

AC motors are usually very reliable, I suspect that all that will be wrong is dried lubrication, unless it is a dual voltage machine and it has been over-voltaged. Why not look at what you've got first. I dont know these B&O machines at all, there may be various switches in series with the motor, more likely to be a problem in one of them than the motor.

Just my thoughts.

16th Jun 2008, 4:08 pm	#1
slivercork Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: London Posts: 4	Beogram 1202 - Repair or replace parts? Hi - have just purchased a Bang and Olufsen 1202 turntable. I don't yet have the deck but i believe that the motor isn't working. I'm happy to take this on as a repair project as the system cost hardly anything and is in beautiful cosmetic condition (according to the photos anyway!); my question is, is it easier to source a new motor (DC Servo?) and "drop it in" or is it a relatively simple job to strip the motor down and clean out dried lubricant etc? If the later is recommended are there any other things I should look for while it's all opened up? Any help would be much appreciated. PS - should point out i have no experience with turntables whatsoever although I'm fairly good with other electronics. Is it best just to send to a repair shop even?

16th Jun 2008, 5:14 pm	#2
Mike Phelan Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 4,609	Re: Beogram 1202 - Repair or replace parts? I wouldn't worry too much until you can actually handle it and discover what is wrong. You'll get plenty of help here! __________________ Mike.

16th Jun 2008, 6:05 pm	#3
Brian R Pateman Nonode Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Lake District, Cumbria (CA20) - UK Posts: 2,136	Re: Beogram 1202 - Repair or replace parts? Hello and welcome to the forum. Given that these decks are now around 35 years old (where do the years go?) I suspect that the motor could well be OK, they were a good quality component and didn't lead a hard life. However, the electronics might be suffering from the normal component problems - electrolytics don't last for ever. As Mike says, wait till you have it on the bench before worrying too much about sourcing a new motor. We're all here to help. Regards, __________________ Brian

16th Jun 2008, 9:40 pm	#4
Michael Maurice Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wembley, Middlesex Posts: 7,224	Re: Beogram 1202 - Repair or replace parts? I have a 1202 (which soon I'll be selling) it must be similar to the 1200, I don't know what the difference is, but this uses an AC motor and a large drive belt. The motor of course could be seized which means stripping down, cleaning and relubricating, the turntable itself is driven by a large drive belt which may still be available as a spare part from B&O the speed change mechanism could also be seized up. Again, simple stripping and relubricating shouyld be all thats required. If you want further help, please send me a private message. I'm in NW London.

17th Jun 2008, 10:05 am	#5
slivercork Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: London Posts: 4	Re: Beogram 1202 - Repair or replace parts? Many thanks everyone. I'm picking it up tonight so will let you know more when i've had the chance to open it up! If it does require stripping down and relubricating my next question will be what greases/oils will I require....?

18th Jun 2008, 6:10 pm	#6
Studio263 Octode Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hampshire, UK. Posts: 1,577	Re: Beogram 1202 - Repair or replace parts? These don't use a servo motor, just a plain old mains two pole asynchronous induction type. By now the whole lot will be seized up solid, so start by stripping everything on the motor / speedchange assembly and cleaning / relubricating it. The shaft about which the speedchange assembly pivots will almost certainly be stuck in the casting with old grease and corrosion, used heat and force(!) to drive it out. Retrieve the two spherical phosphor-bronze bearings from the motor spindle itself and boil them up in light motor oil (not thicker than 15W40) for a few minutes. Let them cool in the oil and refit them. This should get it going. The 1200 and 1202 are quite different inside, you are best off repairing what you have (all easy blacksmith type stuff anyway, none of it is that hard). Becasue the faults are caused by the passing of time they are all as bad as one another anyway!

24th Jun 2008, 10:09 pm	#9
Darren-UK Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 4,061	Re: Beogram 1202 - Repair or replace parts? For convenience I've extracted and thumbnailed one of the two zipped images. Attached Thumbnails

24th Jun 2008, 11:03 pm	#10
AC/HL Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 9,642	Re: Beogram 1202 - Repair or replace parts? It Looks like the base of a "Dust Bug" or similar device. These had a perspex arm, similar to a pickup arm, but with a brush and velvet pad to collect dust as the record was playing. They were notorious for leaving a stain on the paintwork of the Garrard 301 deck, but may be OK on unpainted metal. It's of no use without the arm.

25th Jun 2008, 8:48 am	#11
Mike Phelan Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 4,609	Re: Beogram 1202 - Repair or replace parts? It is definitely a Dust Bug - had a few of them over the years. Alcohol (IPA, vodka or even meths) should be OK on brushed ally, but don't rub too hard, and test on a part you cannot see (like under the turntable). __________________ Mike.

25th Jun 2008, 9:42 am	#12
hondacxrider Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bicester, Oxfordshire, UK. Posts: 92	Re: Beogram 1202 - Repair or replace parts? I can confirm Mike's analysis I have just removed an identical one from a GP42,again the arm was missing. Alcohol will not harm aluminium. Aluminium is a soft metal though so don't rub too hard. BTW, I came by a B&O cartridge, an SP8, though the test documents inside refer to a SP6, would these be a suitable replacement for your machine. I'll pen on another thread as well to stick to the topic.

25th Jun 2008, 9:49 am	#13
ppppenguin Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North London, UK. Posts: 6,168	Re: Beogram 1202 - Repair or replace parts? As other have said, it's the remains of a Dust Bug. You may find that petrol (lighter fluid) is better than alchohol for getting the mark off. Again it won't harm aluminium. Acetone (nail varnish remover) is an even more potent solvent and that won't harm ali either. Despite the oft quoted wisdom that it's impossible to completely remove a dust bug mark from a painted Garrard 301 I have successfully done so in the distant past though I can't remember what solvent I used. I think I removed some very slight surface dulling by rubbing very lightly with Brasso. Don't use Brasso on brushed ali!

25th Jun 2008, 10:28 am	#14
mastermanx2001 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: London, UK. Posts: 366	Re: Beogram 1202 - Repair or replace parts? I agree with Jeffrey, have seen many a turntable base plate spoilt by a dust bug being fitted (Cecil Watts Dustbug I seem to recollect). That said, it is quite a good device. If one cam find te rest of the Dust Bug it would not be a bad thing to use. It came with a tube of anti static solution. I may still have a Dust Bug somewhere. Will look and take photos if I find it. Just found a picture in a 1970 Hi Fi News Attached Thumbnails Last edited by mastermanx2001; 25th Jun 2008 at 10:49 am. Reason: add pic

25th Jun 2008, 11:36 am	#15
geofy Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,798	Re: Beogram 1202 - Repair or replace parts? I never had the dust bug but have the disc preeners (in three colours) and the parastat along with a nice Garrard SPG-3 stylus pressure setting scale with a brass 5 gram calibration weight. Just wish I still had my Garrard AP76 player and my Goldring Lenco GL69 both of which I sold at silly prices a long time ago.

25th Jun 2008, 1:55 pm	#16
slivercork Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: London Posts: 4	Re: Beogram 1202 - Repair or replace parts? Hi all, Right i know what to do to get rid of it then! many thanks everyone. In the mean time i've come across someone who's offered up a newly reserviced motor from a Beogram 3000 (a DC Servo motor!). Whilst people have already pointed out in this thread that the 1202 doesn't have a DC motor, all of the literature i can find through the various beogram related websites say that the two models have virtually the same internal mechanics and electronics.....What do i do?!

25th Jun 2008, 4:16 pm	#17
Michael Maurice Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wembley, Middlesex Posts: 7,224	Re: Beogram 1202 - Repair or replace parts? You cant as far as I know fit a DC motor in place of the AC one. Why dont you post some pictures of the top and underside of the deck, that why we can identify what you have and work from there.

25th Jun 2008, 4:41 pm	#18
mastermanx2001 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: London, UK. Posts: 366	Re: Beogram 1202 - Repair or replace parts? AC motors are usually very reliable, I suspect that all that will be wrong is dried lubrication, unless it is a dual voltage machine and it has been over-voltaged. Why not look at what you've got first. I dont know these B&O machines at all, there may be various switches in series with the motor, more likely to be a problem in one of them than the motor. Just my thoughts.