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Television Standards Converters, Modulators etc Standards converters, modulators anything else for providing signals to vintage televisions.

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Old 27th Aug 2011, 11:18 am   #1
murphyv310
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Default Sound in sync's

I have wondered for some time about sound in sync.
Has this ever been successfully done and was it ever done on 405?
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Old 27th Aug 2011, 11:33 am   #2
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Default Re: Sound in sync's

Invented at the BBC in the 1960s and used for distribution of programmes to transmitters. Never broadcast AFAIK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound-in-Syncs

Presumably never done on 405. I once designed a SIS stripper for a client. It took a video signal with SIS and restored the standard sync pulses.
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Old 27th Aug 2011, 12:30 pm   #3
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Default Re: Sound in sync's

Hi Trevor,

If you (or someone else) have a pile of 'Practical Television' magazines, there's an article on it in the January 1969 issue - BBC's Sound-in-Vision Distribution System by T. John (page 154, 155 and the last bit on page 165.)

I've got it in front of me at the moment, unfortunately I haven't got a working scanner. (I've been meaning to scan it and post it here eventually as it's interesting; maybe someone else can oblige?)

Kat
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Old 27th Aug 2011, 1:20 pm   #4
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Default Re: Sound in sync's

Hi Jeffrey & Kat.
Many thanks for the replies, I certainly would like a look at the article in Television. I should be able to get the issue from Bob over here.
I asked as David Boynes is here for the for the weekend and we were talking about a compacted system for 405 line transmission with a reduced bandwidth for vision of 2mhz and a way to obviate the sound carrier.
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Old 27th Aug 2011, 1:35 pm   #5
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Default Re: Sound in sync's

Here's my copy:
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Name:	PT1969-01-154.jpg
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ID:	55619   Click image for larger version

Name:	PT1969-01-165.jpg
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ID:	55620  
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Old 27th Aug 2011, 1:40 pm   #6
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Default Re: Sound in sync's

Sorry, fig 2 didn't come out very well. Here's anaother try at it:
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Old 27th Aug 2011, 3:52 pm   #7
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Default Re: Sound in sync's

Was this how the likes of the Sony PCM-F1 shown here worked perhaps:-

http://www.palsite.com/pcmf1ovi.html

Regards,

Andy
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Old 27th Aug 2011, 4:13 pm   #8
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Default Re: Sound in sync's

The PCM-F1 occupied the whole video signal on Betamax tape to store digital audio, but I believe it used a higher sample rate and bit depth than SIS.
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Old 28th Aug 2011, 10:53 am   #9
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Default Re: Sound in sync's

Ah gotcha. I always wondered.

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Old 28th Aug 2011, 1:35 pm   #10
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Default Re: Sound in sync's

Dave, it may be better to put the scans in a ZIP file and upload that. You won't have the forum resizing the images then.
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Old 28th Aug 2011, 3:30 pm   #11
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Default Re: Sound in sync's

For the benefit of anyone finding the pages difficult to read, here are the original scans, before forum resizing:
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File Type: zip PT1969-01.zip (1.24 MB, 163 views)
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Old 28th Aug 2011, 6:22 pm   #12
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Default Re: Sound in sync's

Hi Dave.
Thanks for the zipped files, perfect thanks. Had a busy weekend with David here but the car went on the blink so we have been busy with that too.
I will study all the info during the week.
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Old 28th Aug 2011, 6:59 pm   #13
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Default Re: Sound in sync's

I think you'll find that Pye were the first people to use a form of sound in syncs. It was used in their first 2 camera OB van which, I believe, was produces in the very early 50s - perhaps someone could look in the History of Pye TVT book as it's mentioned in there and my copy's out on loan. It was to enable one channel of RF from the OB to base to be used, rather than 2.
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Old 29th Aug 2011, 10:57 am   #14
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Default Re: Sound in sync's

Hi Brian,

Pye did indeed have a sound in syncs system, it was called "videosonic" and was used with the 1947 2 camera demonstration Humber OB van. It sampled the audio at line rate (405) and put a analogue value repersenting the audio level in the sync period, so the channel bandwidth could not have been much more than 4.5Kc/s, OK for the period.

The BBC designed system that was digital and it was manufactured by Pye, in a nice reflection on history. The SIS system was later developed into a stereo one.

Brian S
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