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Old 7th Nov 2020, 9:24 am   #1
Mikey405
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Default Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

Good morning all.

I'm not sure this really falls under the category of "Vintage Telephony" at all other than the fact that I'm trying to install a GPO 741 phone on my kitchen wall - but here goes anyway.

I'm wondering whether anyone knows where I might obtain a metal (or even a plastic) back-box (patress?) for flush mounting a small BT socket. The width and height of the socket is 65mm and just looks like the normal size socket but in miniature.

The surface mounted boxes are readily available but I'd like to mount it flush to the wall.

Many thanks all.

Kind regards.

From Mike.
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Old 7th Nov 2020, 9:50 am   #2
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Default Re: Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

Hi Mike. Send me a PM.
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Old 7th Nov 2020, 10:10 am   #3
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Default Re: Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

I wonder if it might be worth looking for non UK wall boxes. Some continental ones come in smaller than uk sizes. I wonder if it’s based on a foreign size?
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Old 7th Nov 2020, 11:24 am   #4
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Default Re: Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

There are telephone sockets avaialable which fit over a standard flush back box, they are slightly larger than the one in the photo.
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Old 7th Nov 2020, 11:35 am   #5
Dave Moll
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Default Re: Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

Alternatively, you could do what a builder did many years ago when mounting one of my light switches and simply sink the surface-mount pattress into the plaster! The disadvantage of this is the faceplate doesn't then overlap the hole, so the plaster work round it would need to be made good.
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Old 7th Nov 2020, 12:43 pm   #6
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Default Re: Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

I’d just hard wire, as was originally done.
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Old 7th Nov 2020, 1:36 pm   #7
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Default Re: Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

Hi Tim, Pip, Dave and Nick.

Thank you for the interesting replies.

Tim - Re your suggestion about foreign boxes, I'd not thought of that and I will give it a try.

Pip - That's a good suggestion but I'm rather limited in the room I have otherwise I would indeed just use a standard size box.

Nick - Re a permanent connection to an old GPO box - Hmm, well perhaps but then I'd still have a box mounted on the surface and, although it may look more authentic, I would like to be able to unplug the phone and change it for another one from time to time.

Dave - I think that's not actually a bad idea and similar to something I'd half-thought of myself. I'd thought that if I couldn't get a suitable box, I might build up the inside edges of the plastic surface-mount box with some plastic so that there was a "ridge" all the way round the inside of about 1/4 of an inch thick, and then bury the box so that it was about a 1/4 inch lower than the surface of the wall. That way I could plaster up to the edge of the ridge on the box and have 1/4 inch overlap. I'm not sure how well it would work and how easy it would be to get the plaster just right, but it might be worth a try.

In the meantime, however, I will carry on searching for a metal box and give Tim's idea a try.

Thanks all.

Kind regards.

From Mike.
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Old 7th Nov 2020, 3:18 pm   #8
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Default Re: Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

I've had another thought - if you're not averse to modifying your surface-mount box. If you take a hacksaw to the walls of the box, leaving just the base and the fixing pillars, you could make the hole in the wall small enough for the faceplate to overlap the edges without having to do any replastering. I suppose it depends how good your plastering skills are, but I suppose you're going to need to channel in the wiring to the box anyway.
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Old 7th Nov 2020, 10:38 pm   #9
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Default Re: Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

In all my years of system fitting I've never seen a pattress box for the smaller type socket.
But I'd suggest that if the phone is going to be wall mounted, then the wiring will be sunk into the plaster. So there's two choices - forget the back box, as ( and I know it's a bit of a bodge) but what does it contribute. Mark the wall around the socket and make space for the socket ( BTW- if it's an extension, lose the capacitor -not needed) and fit a bit of plastic /cling film between the socket and wall), drilling into the wall to secure the socket. Or as suggested - it's a wall mounted phone- does it really need a socket. Why not hardwire it into inside of phone and if bothered by fact that the bell can not be stopped, fit a switch in the bell circuit.
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Old 8th Nov 2020, 1:16 pm   #10
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Default Re: Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

Check out if this may be the right one:
https://knxshoponline.co.uk/european...ket-back-boxes

On the other hand, just wire the phone directly, and add a ringer capacitor inside the phone if needed.

dsk

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Old 8th Nov 2020, 2:07 pm   #11
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Default Re: Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagskarlsen View Post
add a ringer capacitor inside the phone if needed.
It should already have one.
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Old 8th Nov 2020, 7:09 pm   #12
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Default Re: Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

Then it is only to wire it as this: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...ykGbuvsIPzMGpl
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Old 9th Nov 2020, 5:31 pm   #13
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Default Re: Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

Hi Dave, Oldcodger and DSK.

Many thanks for your kind replies.

I think Dave's idea of just using the screw-posts may be the way to go and I might give that a shot.

Thanks for the other ideas though DSK and Oldcodger. Much appreciated.

Kind regards.

From Mike.
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Old 9th Nov 2020, 5:40 pm   #14
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Default Re: Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

That’s what I meant back in post 6. Sorry I wasn’t clearer. Neat and easy and a variation on the original way of doing it.

Presume you have a hard wired ADSL filter at the master socket?
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Old 9th Nov 2020, 5:46 pm   #15
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Default Re: Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

Hi Nick.

Aah okay. Thank you too then.

No master socket as such - although I'm connecting the 741 to the outside world through a Grandstream 701 VoIP ATA device with a RJ11-to-BT socket (which has the ringing capacitor built in). It works really well with 74x phones (with a minor tweak to the pulse dialler leaf switch to get the mark/space right) - although I'm having hassle with a new 746 I bought recently (but that's another story for another thread).

Thanks again Nick.

Kind regards.

From Mike.
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Old 10th Nov 2020, 12:02 am   #16
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Default Re: Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

Mikey- another way of connecting olde world phones to a line with ADSL etc, where filters are needed , is to split the incoming line with one filter ,sending the line output of the filter to the internal phone setup and the ADSL side to the PC. e.g. chez OC, I have a master socket next to the BT NTE. Filter plugs into NTE and router into adsl out, with a link to the phone socket to send phone line to rest of house wiring.
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Old 10th Nov 2020, 9:16 pm   #17
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Default Re: Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

Hi OC.

That's certainly interesting re splitting the ADSL and phone signals going round the house. Luckily I have neither though - My broadband comes in on coax and I don't have a landline at all. The 741 in the kitchen and 746 in the bedroom are plugged in to a Grandstream HT701 (one at a time at the moment but I've ordered a slightly more modern Grandstream HT818 so I can plug in both at once) and this unit sends the phone calls over the Internet. A strange mix of new and old.

Thanks OC.

Kind regards.

From Mike.
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Old 11th Nov 2020, 3:28 pm   #18
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Default Re: Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

I have even an old electro-mechanical PAX with some diy modifications on IP phone network. It was a lot of struggle to get it up and running..
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 8:54 pm   #19
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Default Re: Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

I always dreamed of building an electromechanical telephone exchange ..... then a microcontroller telephone exchange ..... then Mark Spencer went and wrote Asterisk, and I finally would up with something almost exactly the device I dreamed of, with even better audio patching options.

It's pretty amazing how modern mobiles can still talk perfectly to ancient rotary dial telephones (or even ancient CB telephones with no dial, if you have an ATA that supports instantly dialling an extension when the line is seized).
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 10:56 am   #20
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Default Re: Back box for GPO 741 phone installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by julie_m View Post
I always dreamed of building an electromechanical telephone exchange ..... then a microcontroller telephone exchange ..... then Mark Spencer went and wrote Asterisk, and I finally would up with something almost exactly the device I dreamed of, with even better audio patching options.

It's pretty amazing how modern mobiles can still talk perfectly to ancient rotary dial telephones (or even ancient CB telephones with no dial, if you have an ATA that supports instantly dialling an extension when the line is seized).
I have a former GPO electro-mechanical exchange which served a village in Northumberland from 1929 to 1950 and has been working over VoIP to other old telephones/preserved exchanges around the World for the last 15 years via CNet (our free to connect/use phone network)using the old GPO local & Subscriber Trunk Dialling Codes of 1960's to 1980's.

The old exchange connects via my own Asterisk PBX program running on a Raspberry Pi set up and even has some PSTN numbers where the last two digits get dialled into the old exchange.

I have about 250 lines off my Asterisk which handles around a thousand plus calls a day including calls to my PSTN Speaking Clock numbers (01352 83 8081 and a more interesting one on 01330 55 8081) Even an 'little outfit' called 'BT' ( ) have several lines off the Asterisk with Leicester 0533 xxxxx numbers rather than the modern 0116 xxx xxxx numbers. These numbers end up on a recently installed electro-mechanical system and several old rotary dial telephones in Holborn exchange in London (by coincidence the first London exchange to go to automatic working in the 1920's).

A recent new connection to the network is Mike (who started this thread) with an old 700 series phone! Back where we started - almost?
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