UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Computers

Notices

Vintage Computers Any vintage computer systems, calculators, video games etc., but with an emphasis on 1980s and earlier equipment.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 20th May 2021, 7:54 pm   #201
Mark1960
Octode
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,265
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

Just put an emulator on the pi and you don’t even need to do any woodwork
Mark1960 is offline  
Old 20th May 2021, 8:48 pm   #202
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 11,485
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

I've been watching this thread with interest but as I have never seen the machine in question I am mostly in read mode for the moment.

Probably the simplest way to add a keyboard to a Triton which does not have one is to take a USB PC keyboard connected to a Raspberry Pi, write some Python which watches for keypresses on the USB keyboard and have that code output the Triton equivalent keycodes from the GPIO ports as parallel data + strobe - much like Tim actually did, although I think he chose to use optocouplers to keep the modern hardware electrically separated from the Triton with its potentially fragile antique components.

As far as I can see Tim and a colleague have also designed a convincing looking replica hardware keyboard with a 40-pin PIC as the key scanner / output encoder.

Gerald, the problem you are trying to solve, is that to get the original keyboard which was used with an original Triton working?
SiriusHardware is offline  
Old 20th May 2021, 11:17 pm   #203
GeraldSommariva
Pentode
 
GeraldSommariva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Liphook, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 125
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

The best outcome would be to have both the Triton with its original keyboard working.

The PI option could be good quick fix to get going with some coding
GeraldSommariva is offline  
Old 21st May 2021, 6:41 am   #204
julie_m
Dekatron
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Derby, UK.
Posts: 7,735
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

If you want to interface the Raspberry Pi GPIO to the Transam Triton and use its (USB) keyboard to simulate keypresses on the Triton keyboard, most of the work has already been done in the emulator. It will already be translating whatever comes from the keyboard into whatever pattern of zeros and ones the Triton OS's keyboard-reading routine is expecting to see, ready to present them when the emulated processor tries to read the keyboard. All you have to do is paste that code into a program of your own that will use the GPIO on the Raspberry Pi to present those bits to the real Triton as though they had come from a real keyboard. It actually connects to the same place; so the mod is totally reversible, if and when you ever get your real keyboard fixed.

If the developers are still about, it would be worth contacting them first, though; in case they have already done exactly that in the course of getting a real machine up and running!
__________________
If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.
julie_m is offline  
Old 21st May 2021, 11:45 pm   #205
GeraldSommariva
Pentode
 
GeraldSommariva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Liphook, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 125
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

Quote:
Originally Posted by julie_m View Post
If you want to interface the Raspberry Pi GPIO to the Transam Triton and use its (USB) keyboard to simulate keypresses on the Triton keyboard, most of the work has already been done in the emulator. It will already be translating whatever comes from the keyboard into whatever pattern of zeros and ones the Triton OS's keyboard-reading routine is expecting to see, ready to present them when the emulated processor tries to read the keyboard. All you have to do is paste that code into a program of your own that will use the GPIO on the Raspberry Pi to present those bits to the real Triton as though they had come from a real keyboard. It actually connects to the same place; so the mod is totally reversible, if and when you ever get your real keyboard fixed.

If the developers are still about, it would be worth contacting them first, though; in case they have already done exactly that in the course of getting a real machine up and running!
Thanks , I have taken a look at the emulator code and is not much work to do, I have hacked it to give me a larger screen, to help when using the TRAP built in Disassembler. 16x64 is hard to work with. I remembered when developing my Triton floppy disk controller having a printer was a must.
GeraldSommariva is offline  
Old 21st May 2021, 11:56 pm   #206
Timbucus
Octode
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Barry, Vale of Glamorgan, Wales, UK.
Posts: 1,362
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

You will find my post on how I adapted the MK14 programmer for the Triton on #89 of this thread which covers the actual device...

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...=151851&page=5
Timbucus is offline  
Old 22nd May 2021, 12:11 am   #207
GeraldSommariva
Pentode
 
GeraldSommariva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Liphook, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 125
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbucus View Post
You will find my post on how I adapted the MK14 programmer for the Triton on #89 of this thread which covers the actual device...

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...=151851&page=5
I take a look at that
GeraldSommariva is offline  
Old 22nd May 2021, 9:53 am   #208
SiriusHardware
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 11,485
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

A minor correction, the post Tim is referring to is actually his post #98 of that thread (not #89).
SiriusHardware is offline  
Old 22nd May 2021, 10:09 am   #209
Timbucus
Octode
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Barry, Vale of Glamorgan, Wales, UK.
Posts: 1,362
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

Oops KO
Timbucus is offline  
Old 22nd May 2021, 10:13 am   #210
GeraldSommariva
Pentode
 
GeraldSommariva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Liphook, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 125
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbucus View Post
Oops KO
Tim is the space invaders game working on your Triton ?
GeraldSommariva is offline  
Old 22nd May 2021, 10:15 am   #211
Timbucus
Octode
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Barry, Vale of Glamorgan, Wales, UK.
Posts: 1,362
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeraldSommariva View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbucus View Post
Oops KO
Tim is the space invaders game working on your Triton ?
I have not tried it as yet as I have been distracted on the H8 restoration - I will give it a go this weekend now I have a way to load the Hex data over the keyboard serial port.
Timbucus is offline  
Old 22nd May 2021, 7:16 pm   #212
GeraldSommariva
Pentode
 
GeraldSommariva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Liphook, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 125
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbucus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeraldSommariva View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbucus View Post
Oops KO
Tim is the space invaders game working on your Triton ?
I have not tried it as yet as I have been distracted on the H8 restoration - I will give it a go this weekend now I have a way to load the Hex data over the keyboard serial port.

I see you posted so information here on the H8 look's an interesting project.

Have you got the 8" Floppy Disk system running ?

The reason I asked about invaders, is did you see my post regarding the VDU mod on the Triton ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeraldSommariva View Post
I posted a new user group news letter on my site triton-docs/user-group the reason I was doing more logic check on the Triton PCB and found an extra IC see included photo.

On Page 3 the newsletter talks about "Stop that Flashing" the circuit in on page 4 which includes an option for two graphics roms and double your tape speed.

Thats my extra IC and its installed with a change the line which comes from IC53 in the newsletter is from pin 12 on mine its pin 9.

I know some people had problems getting the Invaders game to run on real HW. Its run on the emulator, from the vids I have seen, it looks like a VDU issue this mode is to stop the snow effect when writing continuously to the VDU map memory with machine code programs.


Did any on else implement this mod ?
GeraldSommariva is offline  
Old 22nd May 2021, 10:18 pm   #213
Timbucus
Octode
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Barry, Vale of Glamorgan, Wales, UK.
Posts: 1,362
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeraldSommariva View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbucus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeraldSommariva View Post

Tim is the space invaders game working on your Triton ?
I have not tried it as yet as I have been distracted on the H8 restoration - I will give it a go this weekend now I have a way to load the Hex data over the keyboard serial port.

I see you posted so information here on the H8 look's an interesting project.

Have you got the 8" Floppy Disk system running ?

The reason I asked about invaders, is did you see my post regarding the VDU mod on the Triton ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeraldSommariva View Post
I posted a new user group news letter on my site triton-docs/user-group the reason I was doing more logic check on the Triton PCB and found an extra IC see included photo.

On Page 3 the newsletter talks about "Stop that Flashing" the circuit in on page 4 which includes an option for two graphics roms and double your tape speed.

Thats my extra IC and its installed with a change the line which comes from IC53 in the newsletter is from pin 12 on mine its pin 9.

I know some people had problems getting the Invaders game to run on real HW. Its run on the emulator, from the vids I have seen, it looks like a VDU issue this mode is to stop the snow effect when writing continuously to the VDU map memory with machine code programs.


Did any on else implement this mod ?
Yes I saw that one and I wondered if it had anything to do with why it has not worked for others - I have echoed the post into the facebook group in case anyone else has made that mod.
Timbucus is offline  
Old 24th May 2021, 1:48 am   #214
ortek_service
Octode
 
ortek_service's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Northampton, Northamptonshire, UK.
Posts: 1,394
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

Quote:
Originally Posted by ortek_service View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeraldSommariva View Post
Its also interesting how many vintage devices like the Diablo used intel 8080 processors like the Triton single board computer ,the wiki page on the 8080 states the following:-

"The 8080 was designed for almost any application except a complete computer system. Hewlett Packard developed the HP 2640 series of smart terminals around the 8080. The HP 2647 is a terminal which runs the programming language BASIC on the 8080."
>>
The 8080 appeared in 1974 and is NMOS implementation its forerunner 8008 was PMOS.
That's quite an odd statement from them, given that most CP/M machines were based on the 8080 and the Z80 also included all the 8080 instructions, as well as it's extra ones.
Plus the 8080 was really Intel's forerunner Microprocessor to the 8086 / 8088 etc - even if they did require a new CP/M-86.

So I'm not sure why they thought the 8080 wasn't designed for computers, when Intel etc. hadn't really got anything better at that point.
And the rival 6502 / 6800 ones were maybe much simpler,with few registers / instructions - Although that did make these able to run these instructions mostly at the full main clock speed, and did inspire Acorn to invent the ARM rather than going down Intel's ever-more complex & power-hungry 80x86 CISC path.

I later had a good look at that 8080 Wiki page. And found that the comment about it not being designed for a complete computer system was at the end in an unverified sources / might need improvement section. So I don't think it really applies too much.

Although some 8080 limitations may have led to alternatives being used - like $360! 1974 launch cost, vs previous 8008's $120.
By 1975 - when $25 6502 was released (Causing, also released in 1974, 6800 to drop from $175 to $69) - the 8080 was still $180. But must have eventually dropped to 6502 prices, with all the other manufacturers of it.

And 8080 still used initial enhancement-only FET's NMOS process, requiring same -5V & +12V of PMOS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMOS_logic
The Motorola 6800 had initially-used on-chip voltage inverter/doubler for single +5V operation, but eventually used Depletion-load NMOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depletion-load_NMOS_logic for faster / smaller single-rail operation, that 6502 then Zilog Z80 had started with.

The 8080's requirement for extra support IC's - especially the 8228 Bus Interface, as well as 8224 divide-by-9 two-phase clock generator/driver, also meant the 8080 wasn't quite a complete processor system and extra cost for these was required.


This has a good summary of early processors back to 4004 http://www.cpushack.com/CPU/cpu1.html


But were some famous 8080 computers, like Altair 8800 etc. - As listed here: https://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/8080/index.html


What is probably most surprising is that the ETI Nov'78 issue / Transam launched this Triton project using the > 4yr old 8080.
- Maybe Triton design was actually now a few years old. Although a year before a similar project in the UK for the 6502: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compukit_UK101
When the rather-improved 8085 'replacement' had been released the year before in 1977. Although not many computers used that either, from those listed at: https://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/8085/index.html
- Probably because the rather-better Z80 had been released in 1976, taking over from the 8080 as it directly-ran the code of, as well as being much-enhanced. So the 8085 update was really too late.

And there were already computers released using the Z80, like the Nascom-1 in 1977 and the Exidy Sorcerer in '78 (My School had some of these in a cupboard, with 35T disk drives that they never used / got gaven away to someone I knew. And ended-up with some bits myself, that unfortunately got stripped down trying to make drives work on a BBC). Even it wasn't until 1980 that ZX80 appeared.


This is a good list of early Microcomputers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...microcomputers
- However, no Triton, so ,maybe should be added!

Plus possibly this one, if CP/M was ever released for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s_running_CP/M
- Maybe not too late, as now an open-source CP/Mish but it's only currently on the Z80: http://cowlark.com/cpmish/index.html
So might have to play with an emulator: https://hackaday.com/2020/07/23/port...sics-anywhere/


And a few other websites just on the 8080:
https://uk.pcmag.com/opinion/38374/c...-pc-revolution
https://hackaday.com/2019/06/15/back...he-intel-8080/
http://www.cpu-collection.de/?l0=co&l1=intel&l2=8080
http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/d...icroprocessor/
https://www.elprocus.com/know-about-...icroprocessor/

Last edited by ortek_service; 24th May 2021 at 2:17 am.
ortek_service is offline  
Old 27th May 2021, 9:44 am   #215
GeraldSommariva
Pentode
 
GeraldSommariva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Liphook, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 125
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbucus View Post

Yes I saw that one and I wondered if it had anything to do with why it has not worked for others - I have echoed the post into the facebook group in case anyone else has made that mod.
Tim did you check out space invader on your Triton over the weekend ?


I was sent this video of the Invaders game not working from a Triton fan in the USA (space-invaders video) its strange the score line is displayed ok be the rest is scrambled.
GeraldSommariva is offline  
Old 27th May 2021, 9:58 am   #216
ortek_service
Octode
 
ortek_service's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Northampton, Northamptonshire, UK.
Posts: 1,394
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeraldSommariva View Post
>>
>>
I was sent this video of the Invaders game not working from a Triton fan in the USA (space-invaders video) its strange the score line is displayed ok be the rest is scrambled.
That link gives this message:

You need access
Ask for access, or switch to an account with access. Learn more

- It was showing I was logged-into my Google account, and there was a box to add comments / a request access button, but not sure if you intended on people having to request access.
ortek_service is offline  
Old 27th May 2021, 10:04 am   #217
GeraldSommariva
Pentode
 
GeraldSommariva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Liphook, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 125
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

Quote:
Originally Posted by ortek_service View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeraldSommariva View Post
>>
>>
I was sent this video of the Invaders game not working from a Triton fan in the USA (space-invaders video) its strange the score line is displayed ok be the rest is scrambled.
That link gives this message:

You need access
Ask for access, or switch to an account with access. Learn more

- It was showing I was logged-into my Google account, and there was a box to add comments / a request access button, but not sure if you intended on people having to request access.

No forgot to change permissions should work now
GeraldSommariva is offline  
Old 31st May 2021, 5:41 pm   #218
Timbucus
Octode
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Barry, Vale of Glamorgan, Wales, UK.
Posts: 1,362
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

OK after fixing the 00 checksum bug (post 87) in my version of the PI Uploader (https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...=151851&page=5) I managed to get the full INVADERS.HEX file loaded...

If you just run with G 1602 it crashes but, an INT 0 reset and start again you can play with [ and ] for left and right and ESC for fire...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5640.jpg
Views:	61
Size:	123.2 KB
ID:	235165  
Timbucus is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2021, 3:09 pm   #219
GeraldSommariva
Pentode
 
GeraldSommariva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Liphook, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 125
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbucus View Post
OK after fixing the 00 checksum bug (post 87) in my version of the PI Uploader (https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...=151851&page=5) I managed to get the full INVADERS.HEX file loaded...

If you just run with G 1602 it crashes but, an INT 0 reset and start again you can play with [ and ] for left and right and ESC for fire...
So its works on real HW is the check sum on the invaders program you have 5342 2 ?
GeraldSommariva is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2021, 8:24 pm   #220
Timbucus
Octode
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Barry, Vale of Glamorgan, Wales, UK.
Posts: 1,362
Default Re: The Transam Triton Personal Computer

The checksum can vary depending on what generates it - on cksum (under Linux) of the binary it is

sum len name
203220964 1601 invaders
Timbucus is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:54 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.