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Television Standards Converters, Modulators etc Standards converters, modulators anything else for providing signals to vintage televisions.

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Old 17th Jul 2022, 5:05 am   #61
dalekmoore2007
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Default Re: Modeline experiments

Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyv310 View Post
Hi.
I now have the graphics card and it's installed in my Dell Optiplex 780 and certainly operating.
Now to learn what to do next, the PC is dual boot between Windows 10 and Linux Mint 20.3.

How should I proceed now?
I also got a lead with the Graphics card that has two VGA female sockets.
First up have a look here on the circuit side as you will want to output
your video
http://www.taswegian.com/NBTV/forum/...hp?f=15&t=3143

Well check that windows is detecting both monitors in dual displays .

select one as you desk top other extended display .

If the pc boots up with both displays thats good !

Next load mode line by copy paste to the large white empty menu box .
I would do one at a time as some i have found don't work for me .
Look at my post 2 post back at the image of mode line menu all those worked for me apart from 180 line .

I will post what i have handy here my workable ones will be in among those below .

Modeline "664x377_25 10.1kHz 50.0Hz" 8.100 664 680 752 800 377 378 385 405 interlace -hsync -vsync
Modeline "560x220_25 6.0kHz 25.0Hz" 3.750 560 568 584 624 220 221 233 240 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "656x383_25 11.0kHz 50.0Hz" 8.820 656 665 744 800 383 384 392 441 interlace -hsync +vsync
Modeline "640x540_25 15.6kHz 50.0Hz" 13.620 640 694 758 872 540 556 562 625 interlace -hsync -vsync
Modeline "570x456_30 15.7kHz 59.9Hz" 12.080 570 621 678 768 456 472 478 525 interlace -hsync -vsync
Modeline "1500x580_25 15.6kHz 50.0Hz" 26.880 1500 1508 1605 1720 580 582 596 625 interlace -hsync -vsync
Other mode lines to try on a monitor build below
Modeline "1200x220_25 6.0kHz 25.0Hz" 8.020 1200 1210 1251 1336 220 221 232 240 hsync-vsync
Modeline "664x377_25 10.1kHz 50.0Hz" 8.100 664 680 752 800 377 378 386 405 interlace-hsync -vsync
Modeline "996x377_25 10.1kHz 50.0Hz" 12.150 996 1008 1131 1200 377 378 386 405 interlace-hsync-vsync
Modeline '900x180_25 4.5kHz 25.0Hz" 4.050 664 728 784 900 170 172 176 180 hsync -vsync
"Modeline ""664x377_2510.1kHz 50.1Hz"" 8.100 664 680 752 800 376 378 384 404 interlace·hsync·vsync"
Modeline "1120x220_25 6,0kHz 25,0Hz" 7.488 1120 1136 1168 1248 220 221 233 240 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "1680x220_25 6,0kHz 25,0Hz" 11.232 1680 1704 1752 1872 220 221 233 240 -hsync -vsync"
"Modeline ""664x377_2510.1kHz 50.0Hz"" 8.100 664 680 752 800 377 378 395 405 interlace +hsync -vsync"
"Modeline ""1680x220_25 6.0kHz 25.0Hz"" 11.230 1680 1704 17521872 220 221233240 +hsync -vsync"
The ones that work will come up green(if in red will not work with out code change ) that arrow next to say if you selected 405 line at 664x377 you select and it will ask you to reboot yes reboot and once your back select it again and it will now work one of the monitors will go off and that vga will be outputting 405 line at this size 664x377 so it will not be all the display say some mode line at 1680x220 this size would be showing all the desktop well thats what i am finding .
Easy when you know very hard with no instructions !
I found to if i left the pc in mode line displaying say again 405 line for a long time pressing the esc button to go back to the monitor display it would not work i had to reboot the pc more than likely my PC than a normal thing .
But yes ESC button you go back to the desk top monitor .
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Old 17th Jul 2022, 5:12 am   #62
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Default Re: Modeline experiments

By the way i never bothered selecting the VGA 1 Or VGA 2 box's the thing works as is better the devil you know !
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Old 17th Jul 2022, 10:44 am   #63
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Default Re: Modeline experiments

I've just been reading through your various trials and tribulations on
http://www.taswegian.com/NBTV/forum/...hp?f=15&t=3143
and I got to the point where one or (worse) both of your monitors were blank because the graphics card was outputting a TV mode and a reboot didn't change the resolution, and you were contemplating reinstaling the entire OS...

...STOP, Windows Safe Mode is your freind (tap F8 while reboting) that will give you a picture of sorts on your screens.
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Old 17th Jul 2022, 12:30 pm   #64
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Default Re: Modeline experiments

Hi.

Thanks for all the input. Will wait till I've got a VGA switch and then proceed. I'm going to make up a lead though in the first instance to feed my modulator.
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Old 17th Jul 2022, 8:51 pm   #65
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Default Re: Modeline experiments

Hi.
If each RGB output is terminated with a 75 ohm resistor will the graphics card not see this as a monitor and report unknown monitor?
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Old 18th Jul 2022, 4:10 am   #66
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Default Re: Modeline experiments

I don't think that will work Trevor, the monitor identification appears to be done digitally

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_Data_Channel

I've tried disconnecting pin 12 and/or 15 but I couldn't fool it.
Anyway, if like me, you are using your normal computer, having a second monitor as an extended desktop is a massive enhancement for normal computer stuff.

Another thing worth mentioning, is there is a useful +5v supply on pin 9 but my cheap VGA switch box does not pass it through, so I soldered a wire link.
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Old 18th Jul 2022, 4:42 am   #67
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Default Re: Modeline experiments

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Hi.
If each RGB output is terminated with a 75 ohm resistor will the graphics card not see this as a monitor and report unknown monitor?
Arrrrr forgot to mention this ! i split the VGA cable so its going to the vga monitor as normal and to the little circuit board same time ,when you select 405 line the VGA gos off and so when you ESC the say 405 line it gos back to being and normal video signal VGA so the monitor gos back on ! always thinking ahead ! I would say every one else has done some thing like this .
I put in sockets / vga from pc card to vga socket
]------(circuit for 405 line )-------[ and to monitor
video plug
to your tv
IN between all the wiring
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Old 18th Jul 2022, 4:50 am   #68
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Default Re: Modeline experiments

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Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
I've just been reading through your various trials and tribulations on
http://www.taswegian.com/NBTV/forum/...hp?f=15&t=3143
and I got to the point where one or (worse) both of your monitors were blank because the graphics card was outputting a TV mode and a reboot didn't change the resolution, and you were contemplating reinstaling the entire OS...

...STOP, Windows Safe Mode is your freind (tap F8 while reboting) that will give you a picture of sorts on your screens.
If i get into trouble again i will sure try it i think i reinstalled winds a fair few times !
Its very well behaved at the moment working every time so i am careful not to change display settings now that it works ,the main problem was i think i have 2 different brand monitors twice as much trouble but worked it out and they are very happy where they are ! my mistakes might help others . I have not got to the point of Trying my own mode lines but i came across this site
https://www.epanorama.net/faq/vga2rgb/calc.html
i would if this would be of use not tried it yet .
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Old 21st Jul 2022, 11:09 am   #69
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Default Re: Modeline experiments

Bit more work on my 405 line monitor
worked more on the deflection today and getting bit better .
Got to look into blanking that would be nice and invert the video the CRT is upside down BTW just to work on the yoke when needed.
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Old 23rd Jul 2022, 1:10 pm   #70
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Default Re: Modeline experiments

Hi.
Well some progress and some steps back. I dissected a lead and made up the interface with the exception that I terminated each RGB lead with 100r to ground and plugged in at that point, I was greeted with VGA 2 unknown monitor so I then finished the interface, connected the output to a modulator which does both UHF & VHF, at this point I tried without modeline changes, indeed my Sony had three desktops and rolling frame...... All good.
I then added in the modeline for 625 and it saved after reboot. Problems though it only works if you select screen 2, the main goes blank for 20 seconds then reappears, the resultant picture on the Sony is grim although locked up its low in level, smeary and with overshoot. It won't work with duplicate screens etc.
I also tried 405 and it won't work as 377 is an error.
Help needed as I'm no PC Genius
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Old 23rd Jul 2022, 4:20 pm   #71
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Default Re: Modeline experiments

Success!!!!
All sorted now and working. 405, 441 and 625 lines programmed in.
A lot of fiddling including loosing my main monitor for a while but the excellent definition of 405 let me back into settings and I was able to restore my Sony LCD TV I use as the main monitor.
Really chuffed and thanks for the help guys.
Here is a quick video, pretty naff TBH and not the best quality I'm afraid.
https://youtu.be/5B0NXuJSRi4
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Old 24th Jul 2022, 7:48 am   #72
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Default Re: Modeline experiments

Arrrr great to hear and i felt your pain with the first message !
Once you set it up its pretty easy ,i think mode line has made a old pc into a great bit of test gear how many system converters can also do what a pc does i would say none ! but here we have a systems converter that also can system convert every thing photo video wise on your PC and the WWW. i can now make monitors for old tv systems where i couldn't before made the old hobby more interesting . And for you guys using it for old sets does it get any better ...cheap and easy
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Old 24th Jul 2022, 11:55 am   #73
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Hi.
In reality it's not a converter, it's not converting one standard to another its merely generating a new standard whether 240.405.441.625 or whatever Modeline is programmed so there is no conversion loss.
With the shortage of chips these days I believe its madness not to do it this way. Cheap and very effective.
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Old 24th Jul 2022, 12:38 pm   #74
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Default Re: Modeline experiments

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Originally Posted by murphyv310 View Post
With the shortage of chips these days I believe its madness not to do it this way. Cheap and very effective.
Can't disagree with that..http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk/240%20lines.htm

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Old 24th Jul 2022, 8:11 pm   #75
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Default Re: Modeline experiments

Just to add to the last two posts

THIS link points to an evaluation copy VidblasterX ver 4.1.1

Click on the big blue Download Now but close any pop-ups that relate to any other software. I know it's an old version of Vidblaster, but it's the only one I've been able to set up for a proper aspect ratio with the modeline system we've been using.

To explain, it's a vision switcher that crucially has the ability to send the output to the 2nd monitor port, ie to our modulator.

At a minimum, you need the following modules:
A "Still Store" for your testcards and other graphics.
A "Player" for your videos (I call it telecine)
The "Switcher" module
Two "Monitors"
and lastly an "Output" module

Drag the modules to where you want them on the screen, as you add them.

Right-click on each module to get to its configuration menu:

PLAYER and STILL STORE
"Open" navigate to the wanted video/image file
"Aspect Ratio" 1.78

MONITOR 1
"Display size 25%"
"Source" Preview

MONITOR 2
"Display size 25%"
"Source" Program

OUTPUT
"Source" Program
"Destination" Display 1 (Which is the second monitor on my system).

Click "Video" on the top menu and select
Resolution 1920*1080 (full HD). Then "Video" Frame rate 25.

As you would expect the 1.78:1 (16:9) gives laterally stretched results within Vidblaster but the result at 405 is perfect.

In use, fire up Winmodelines first, selecting Video 1
Make sure the destination of the "Output" module is still Display 1, and turn it "ON".
Now you should be able to select your sources on the program bus of the switcher (mixer).

I've never written up this before, hope there are not too many mistakes, hope you all give it a try, it's a lot better than "sliding" the pictures onto the 405 line screen.
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Old 24th Jul 2022, 8:39 pm   #76
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Default Re: Modeline experiments

Hi Graham.
Boy that sounds complicated, I will though give it all a go and see if I can get it to work.
I'll certainly report back with my results.
Thanks for the guidance.
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Old 24th Jul 2022, 9:44 pm   #77
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Once you get the hang of it you can build a complete studio on your desktop.

Have you seen my video?
https://youtu.be/ahzdx4KgWBg

BTW I lied when I said you need the above as a minimum, for example if you just want a test card "C" generator you just need two modules, a "still store" and the "output" you don't need the "switcher".
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Old 25th Jul 2022, 7:48 am   #78
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Default Re: Modeline experiments

Thanks Graham.
Now I see what you are doing regarding the program. I'll hopefully get time today to see what to do.
I'll come back here with my findings in due course.
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Old 25th Jul 2022, 8:50 am   #79
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Default Re: Modeline experiments

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it's a lot better than "sliding" the pictures onto the 405 line screen.
Hi Graham,

I've not used your video scheme but I must admit that I have recently had some problems with sliding the pictures when using VLC player for 240 line videos. I could slide them across and then have difficulty in getting them back because the TV is at the other side of the room from my PC and I struggled to see where my cursor was on the TV screen.

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Old 25th Jul 2022, 2:38 pm   #80
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Default Re: Modeline experiments

Hi.
Well after some hiccups it works and beautifully.
Will do some videos when I've fully got the hang of it.
Thanks
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Last edited by murphyv310; 25th Jul 2022 at 3:04 pm.
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