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Old 28th Aug 2022, 10:31 am   #61
zoomer1
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Default Re: Purchasing an R1155 receiver

Thanks for the offer of the PCR but if you look at the original post you will see why it has to be an 1155.
I have provisionally now purchased a non working 1155 from an aviation enthusiast. It looks from the photographs to be completely original, with no external modifications or missing parts and in very good condition. I hope to collect later this week.
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Old 28th Aug 2022, 12:55 pm   #62
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Default Re: Purchasing an R1155 receiver

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoomer1 View Post
but if you look at the original post you will see why it has to be an 1155.
"has to be"? Looking at it, you say that it's something you have decided to do and we've all been assuming that you are not locked into that decision and still retain the right to change your mind,
or discover alternatives.

But it's your choice. It's an expensive one, but at least you know there are alternatives, and you can now go ahead with your eyes open.

Even if you were restoring a whole Lancaster, it still wouldn't have to be an R1155. Many Lancs were fitted with the American BC348. A somewhat better receiver, though lacking the DF of the R1155. Britain couldn't make R1155s fast enough towards the end, so Uncle Sam helped out.

My connection with Lancaster radios is that the planes of the RAF Battle of Britain Memorial flight (inc their Lanc) now use radio hardware which I designed. for comms and their radar transponders. Oh, and Sally-B the last airworthy Flying Fortress in Europe. The firm I was with make very small transponders and radios, which are useful for people restoring warplanes and want something to fit unobtrusively in their panels and let them comply with current flight regs.

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Old 28th Aug 2022, 12:55 pm   #63
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Default Re: Purchasing an R1155 receiver

Mechanical engineer normally means to me someone who has a good manual dexterity, if that's the case your half way there, the part of the electronic circuitry in the R1155 receiver that you are ultimately interested in so far as refurbishment goes isn't that complicated, its basically a bog standard superhet receiver with a few extra features thrown in, those extra features should be relatively easy to understand once you've grasped the basic concept of a superhet (superheterodyne) receiver, the 1st stage on that journey is to learn what the function of each stage of a basic superhet receiver is....

....Antenna>>Mixer (aka the frequency changer)>>IF (intermediate frequency) Amplifier>>Demodulator (aka the detector)>>AF (audio Frequency amplifier)>>Loudspeaker/Headphones.....and a power supply to power everything.

The basic function of each stage in a basic superhet receiver isn't difficult to learn or understand, breaking down the apparent complexity of the receiver as a whole into it's separate stages greatly aids to the understanding of the whole.

The schematic of the R1155 in it's entirety has been simplified to the radio receiver only in a section of the A.P. (Air Publication) A.P.254A, Vol 1, Chap. 2, here's the link again:

http://www.vmarsmanuals.co.uk/new/16...8_Vol1_Ch2.pdf

The publication gives a block diagram (the stages) the full schematic, simplified schematic for the radio receiver part, the physical layout of the innards, component references and values and much more.

If you want to fit a modern receiver board inside it to be going on with it shouldn't present any major problems if you can figure out how to mount it and connect the tuning drive, you will also need to route an antenna through to your board, a low voltage power supply to the board and a loudspeaker, all those can be routed via some of the pins on the receivers front panel plug/sockets by disconnecting some of their internal connections in the receiver and using those pins to connect to your board.

Good luck whicheverways.

Link to the full schematic on one page:

http://www.vmarsmanuals.co.uk/new/16...-m_Circuit.pdf

Which came from:

http://www.vmarsmanuals.co.uk/new/r1155.htm

Lawrence.

Last edited by ms660; 28th Aug 2022 at 1:16 pm. Reason: link added
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Old 28th Aug 2022, 2:05 pm   #64
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Default Re: Purchasing an R1155 receiver

Despite an awful lot of constructive and helpful advice there appears, either by interpretation or by my inability to adequately explain, some misunderstanding as to exactly what I am trying to achieve. My requirement is for a working genuine WW2 RR1155 in original condition allowing me to use it and listen to a commercial radio station. Having no radio repair experience I did not originally appreciate that a significant amount of wiring and components would need replacing to get it working and this brings into question the degree of authenticity. The suggestion of using the David Winter Module offers a solution to both requirements. Leave the radio 100% original and fit the module. Please remember that I am not (well actually I am now) a vintage radio enthusiast in genera so my approach to this is radically different from yours. My interest lies in WW2 aviation electronic and radar development. The replies, suggestions and advice given by members of this forum have however stimulated my interest in vintage radios and I plan to learn more and take on a small domestic radio.
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Old 7th Sep 2022, 1:44 pm   #65
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Default Re: Purchasing an R1155 receiver

The radio that I was going to purchase turned out to have a lot of components missing from inside, so I am still looking for an R1155.
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Old 7th Sep 2022, 1:57 pm   #66
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Default Re: Purchasing an R1155 receiver

I suggest you post in the Sets, Parts and Service information Wanted section of the forums. State exactly what it is you require, price range etc.
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Old 7th Sep 2022, 8:27 pm   #67
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Default Re: Purchasing an R1155 receiver

I don't think you have failed to explain your requirements Zoomer or that Forum members haven't understood, it's just that there is a broad financial, technical and personal gap in the way that isn't easily resolved-hence all the posts so far With your mechanical skills you could probably create a mint [looking] "dumb" set [lit up] whether absolutely complete internally or not. Locking mechanically into the illuminated "half moon" dial for tuning purposes could be achieved but at the expense of internal originality, perhaps using a module feed as suggested. If you just want the sense and feel of an R1155, a speaker concealed in or around the case, fed from the earphone socket of any small radio might be just as effective. It's the route taken by museums and exhibitions sometimes. Rob [post 51] didn't think much of that option but as you said yourself, you may be outside the usual frame of reference here! If you spent the best part of a grand on a high quality restored set, complete with a DF section there still may not be much to hear apart from the Medium Wave Band and those Broadcasts may disappear quicker than we imagine. You might need to feed in an digital signal in the end. There are very low power devices [aka Pantry Sets] that can convert any digital source to a LW/MW or SW radio signal to send over a very short distance but you'd need the working set for that of course. Some of the 1155 rebuilds on here have achieved a very high external quality which followed all the hard work on the electricals. They are complex to work on because, like the aircraft crews, they weren't expected to survive!

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Old 8th Sep 2022, 1:56 pm   #68
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Default Re: Purchasing an R1155 receiver

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave walsh View Post
like the aircraft crews, they weren't expected to survive!

Dave W
I've seen this sort of comment expressed many times before and I want just to say that I have been involved in the design of Military Equipment and at no time whatsoever have any of the engineers just shrugged and opined that it's "not going to last that long". Seriously, all the military designs I've been involved in were about function, reliablity and availability. There is NO point in sending a half-baked piece of equipment to war, the result of that would be loss and losing. If you have that attitude you will soon be surrendering. The people who may have cut corners were the bean counters and not the engineers!

For example - the original Sten Gun design had a handle....

Sorry - off topic!

Cheers
James
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Old 8th Sep 2022, 2:05 pm   #69
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Default Re: Purchasing an R1155 receiver

Absoutely correct - and that includes single-use missiles. I have always found it a bit sad and ironic that a piece of military kit often contains the very best engineering and is a beauty to behold - odd then that its only purpose is to blow itself to bits! A treasured example I have is the magnetic detector from a German WW2 sea mine. Built like a Swiss watch and still functions perfectly today.
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Old 9th Sep 2022, 6:51 pm   #70
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Default Re: Purchasing an R1155 receiver

Well you chaps clearly have the background, experience and qualifications to support what you've said. It's true that many people have held that view [ie David at post 6] and it was expressed in the very many discussions about the R1155 a decade ago. They were suddenly more in demand than ever and rose in price for some reason, like Tulips in Holland 400 years ago. Perhaps this "urban myth" or assumption [if indeed that's what it is?] could itself have arisen from the very great losses incurred by Lancaster crews in action [one in three at one point I think]. A glance at forties training manuals does indeed indicate a dedicated approach to quality construction.

On the other hand though, it was a very pressured war time situation with high grade "domestic" sets [like the Murphy A92] having to be being pressed into service until 1155's and AR88's etc could be manufactured in bulk. This would be very different to a "peace time" production environment I think! The 88's themselves had what has often been described as a design fault, attributable to haste, given the well known vulnerability of the OP Transformer resulting in it's failure. These are now as rare as "Hen's Teeth" and for many years it was believed that if a fault arose nothing could be done but then others found ways to retro fit a more readily available transformers. It was suggested that in wartime and especially with land based diversity arrays with multiple sets it would have been more time and cost effective to just get another TR from the stores rather than repair and modify!

I don't think that there has been any attempt to malign anyone's professional standards in any way.
Apologies if that has been the result. As far as I know it is just a theory without evidence either way. I have a friend who produces, not very high tech, parts for Military Helicopters that are built to an exacting long lasting standard all the same. On a perhaps related issue some 1155's were produced or converted to include a "Marine Band" as was said earlier. That meant they didn't need to modified by Radio Amateurs for Top Band 160 metres as was usual. I was very sceptical about their existence at all [another myth?] along with many others, until I eventually saw one on here. They were used by coastal command I think. My uncle died a few years ago and it was only then that I learned he had been installing them on boats in the Far East during his National Service after the war. Sadly, an opportunity missed to learn more.

Dave W

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Old 9th Sep 2022, 8:23 pm   #71
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Default Re: Purchasing an R1155 receiver

I was never that convinced by the "only designed to last a short time" argument- though there are a few routes by which that may have become received wisdom. As said above, it would be a foolish policy to go to war (especially an all-out, effectively existential one like WW2) with flakey equipment that couldn't be expected to "just work". Why risk expending arguably the most expensive to train and limited-supply resource- aircrew- on saving money on electronics. Boeing famously called the men from Ford in to slash the per-unit cost of B17 production, then Ford went on to churn out B24s like a giant sausage machine- but the cost reduction was achieved by taking a hard look at production processes and time-and-motion, not by reducing the quality of the finished item. In the last few months of the war, there was something of a "sorcerer's apprentice" syndrome where vast factories finally achieved politicians' and generals' ambitious goals- only to be met with a winding-down of demand, so it's entirely conceivable that unserviceable equipment tended to be left in a pile somewhere and shiny new boxes plugged/screwed in instead, giving rise to a "disposable" legend.
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Old 9th Sep 2022, 10:45 pm   #72
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Default Re: Purchasing an R1155 receiver

A pal of mine relates a tale of a conversation he had with the late Geoff Dummer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Dummer) back in the 1990's. Dummer had been involved in the development during the war of the H2S Training Tank which simulated the operation of the radar by 'flying' an ultrasonic head through a fluid bath over a scale model of typical terrain. To do the job and not encounter corrosion issues the head was machined out of a lump of solid gold. When asked about the cost, Dummer replied 'It was wartime, the unit was needed without delay, the cost was totally irrelevant and never questioned.'

Andy
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Old 9th Sep 2022, 11:10 pm   #73
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That reminds me of the US Treasury's release of 15,000 tons of silver for Manhattan Project cyclotron electromagnet windings- admittedly a bit of a special case though.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 12:12 am   #74
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Default Re: Purchasing an R1155 receiver

I very much take on board turret slug's point about the "short time argument" [whoever that is making it?] but what would WE have done in 1940 The Boeing financial situation was not in the middle of a world war in which most countries around the world were invaded or disinterested, so the early electronics standard was the best we could achieve at the time. As for the gold and silver supplies Andy refers to, well they must have come from a magical source I suppose Money is now going to be no object very soon again [eg the new wartime] after Covid and energy problems in particular! I recommend the BBC series [Capture!] where video images can be manipulated to show the "truth". It might seem to be a long way from 1939 but not really at all and it's happening now.

The R1155 set that was linked in at the Norfolk auction down the road "Zoomer" [Where to get Sets and Parts] seems to be just what you are looking for and at a good price but will you go for it?

Dave W

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Old 10th Sep 2022, 6:12 pm   #75
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Default Re: Purchasing an R1155 receiver

If you want one and are dubious about the repair of same, then just preserving for show and a talking point is not the end of the world in my opinion
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 8:04 pm   #76
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Default Re: Purchasing an R1155 receiver

It seems that the auction house doesn't ship things, but may do delivery within their locality (Cost not mentioned, but they are an auction house so I'd expect them to see it as a juicy source of profit)

So if it's in range of you, this discouragement of more distant bidders could keep the price down for you.

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Old 11th Sep 2022, 5:32 am   #77
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Default Re: Purchasing an R1155 receiver

"I was never that convinced by the "only designed to last a short time" argument- ..."
There is a subtle misunderstanding here...
The R1155 may not have been designed to last only a short time, but on the other hand it wasn't designed to last a long time.
There is a comparison somewhere (maybe on Youtube) of the R1155 and the BC348 mentioned above. The performance wasn't wildly different but the materials and mechanicals etc in the BC348 were better and vastly more expensive. Rotary switches for example were paxolin in the 1155 and ceramic in the BC348.
This is partly a reflection of the differing pressures the UK and US electronic industries were under at the time. Plus, the 1155/1154 were designed at top speed.
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Old 11th Sep 2022, 10:28 pm   #78
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Default Re: Purchasing an R1155 receiver

Mention of the R1475 in post #6 , took me back to my Student-Apprentice days. I had one of these sets - but to me it was an "Rg 44". My colleagues and I were in shared "digs", and one evening in Oct. 1957 , using a few feet of aerial chucked over a wardrobe , we picked-up the signal from the first "Sputnik" . I recall that it was almost exactly on 20 Mc/s . -- so we were lucky that the set's coverage went that far !
Sadly , all that I now have is a "Double-Elephant" size print , dated 1945 , of the cct. diag. and component list of "Receiver Type 88".

Laurie .

Almost forgot :- We modified a couple of Guard Units , to pick-up chosen Medium Wave Stations , when travelling (usually in a borrowed Morris-Minor) with H.T. from a rotary-convertor in a rear footwell !
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 7:40 pm   #79
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Default Re: Purchasing an R1155 receiver

I have now purchased an R1155A radio receiver in working order with a separate power supply. The set is in extremely good condition and appears to my inexperienced eye to be original and unmodified. It also appears complete internally including the DF valves. The previous owner was a radio ham. I have not powered it up yet due to one of the valves in the power supply being damaged in transit. Ideally, I would like to connect an external speaker but for now I plan on using headphones and if possible, the period correct type. From what I have read it appears that it is important to use the correct impedance headphones so could someone please give me some advice?
What type do I require?
Are all WW2 headphones compatible?
How does their performance compare with modern types?
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 8:08 pm   #80
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Default Re: Purchasing an R1155 receiver

old style headphones 4-5 kilohms can be found, but you can run modern low impedance
types e.g. 32 ohm with a suitable small stepdown audio transformer. This is also safer
as it offers dc isolation. Modern moving coil phones will sound less "tinny"
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