UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items

Notices

Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items For discussions about other vintage (over 25 years old) electrical and electromechanical household items. See the sticky thread for details.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 23rd Mar 2018, 11:23 pm   #1
Phil G4SPZ
Dekatron
 
Phil G4SPZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,735
Default Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

I was given this attractive clock last year. I fitted a new replica fabric-covered mains cable, applied a drop of clock oil to the rotor bearings, and off it went. It ran for weeks but every so often it would stop, intermittently. I put this down to brief mains failures, as a re-spin of the starting knob always got it going again.

More recently, the clock stopped (started stopping?) but with the rotor still turning. Investigation revealed a considerable amount of wear in the first worm gear and its associated wheel, to the extent that the wheel would sometimes come out of mesh. I dismantled the movement and, with care, adjusted the position of the upper axle bearing by bending it very slightly to bring the first wheel into deeper mesh with the teeth of the first worm.

I cleaned everything up and applied some light clock oil to the worm and the rotor bearings, and all appears to be well again. I tried running it on reduced mains voltage via the Variac, and found it will still work on as little as 120 volts. This clock is a year older than me, and I think it will probably go on running longer than I will!

Phil
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Ferranti Model 12 1952.jpg
Views:	354
Size:	45.7 KB
ID:	159819  
__________________
Phil

Optimist [n]: One who is not in possession of the full facts
Phil G4SPZ is offline  
Old 23rd Mar 2018, 11:44 pm   #2
Hartley118
Nonode
 
Hartley118's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Cambridge, Cambs. UK.
Posts: 2,196
Default Re: Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

Pivot wear is very common after this length of time in synchronous clocks. In one troublesome example, I fashioned a loop of phosphor bronze wire to keep a pinion in engagement, but eventually after a few years had to replace the movement itself.

Our Smiths synchronous kitchen clock only runs properly with its movement turned upside down.

Martin
__________________
BVWS Member
Hartley118 is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2018, 4:28 pm   #3
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

There was a clock just like that on "The Repair Shop" in a propeller clock, the twit restoring it replaced the movement with a quartz one (not even a MSF type).
 
Old 24th Mar 2018, 4:54 pm   #4
MurphyNut
Heptode
 
MurphyNut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK.
Posts: 979
Default Re: Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

Ferranti made some very lovely bakelite moldings in the shape of radios and clocks. Your little clock is charming, I have one. They're usually in dark brown but very occasionally you'll find colour versions of a particular shape. I'm always on the lookout for these.
__________________
Clive
MurphyNut is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2018, 5:07 pm   #5
Phil G4SPZ
Dekatron
 
Phil G4SPZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,735
Default Re: Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

Thank you, it certainly is a nice-looking clock and it even gets my wife's approval! And since I fixed it yesterday it has kept perfect time, too

Yes, Merlin, I saw that programme. Whilst I normally admire Steve Fletcher's skills, he definitely went down in my estimation for that bit of sacrilege. Sad, but not atypical. I have known several highly skilled and capable craftsmen who virtually go to pieces whenever electricity (particularly mains electricity) is present.
__________________
Phil

Optimist [n]: One who is not in possession of the full facts
Phil G4SPZ is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2018, 6:17 pm   #6
M0FYA Andy
Nonode
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 2,510
Default Re: Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

I didn't catch that episode of 'The Repair Shop', if I had I would doubtless have turned it off in despair! 'Restoring' a clock by substituting a quartz mechanism is the ultimate bodge in my book, just taking the easy way out.
As somebody very interested in master/slave impulse clock systems, I get really annoyed when a slave is destroyed by installing a quartz mechanism.
Andy
M0FYA Andy is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2018, 6:34 pm   #7
Phil G4SPZ
Dekatron
 
Phil G4SPZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,735
Default Re: Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

I have, on occasion, fitted a quartz mechanism to a vintage clock, but only on a temporary basis and with the Curator's consent, so that the clock can remain on display and working in the Museum whilst I undertake the time-consuming process of restoring the original clockwork movement.
__________________
Phil

Optimist [n]: One who is not in possession of the full facts
Phil G4SPZ is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2018, 6:39 pm   #8
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

Quote:
As somebody very interested in master/slave impulse clock systems
Me too, a Magneta 36 and 4 house dials. I have just set them (the slaves) to BST to save confusion on the morning.
 
Old 24th Mar 2018, 6:48 pm   #9
MurphyNut
Heptode
 
MurphyNut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK.
Posts: 979
Default Re: Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

I must admit to putting a quartz mechanism in an old clock but for a very good reason. The said clock was bought for very little with its original mechanism missing.
I managed to find a quartz mechanism with chrome look hands that matched the chrome numbers on the face very well.
The clock now looks really nice in the hallway with the bonus of not having to get mains to it.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF3625.jpg
Views:	181
Size:	72.8 KB
ID:	159861  
__________________
Clive
MurphyNut is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2018, 7:11 pm   #10
Phil G4SPZ
Dekatron
 
Phil G4SPZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,735
Default Re: Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

Far better a working vintage clock with a quartz movement than a vintage clock in landfill! That looks very impressive.

Some of the quartz movement suppliers provide a wide choice of stylish hands. The picture shows the Museum's 1930s clock fitted with temporary quartz movement and hands. Better than no clock at all...

Phil
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_7303.jpg
Views:	241
Size:	45.0 KB
ID:	159862  
__________________
Phil

Optimist [n]: One who is not in possession of the full facts

Last edited by Phil G4SPZ; 24th Mar 2018 at 7:16 pm. Reason: Picture added
Phil G4SPZ is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2018, 8:25 pm   #11
M0FYA Andy
Nonode
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 2,510
Default Re: Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

I was very much referring to the disturbingly common practice of removing a repairable or, even worse, a perfectly serviceable movement from a clock, discarding it and substituting a quartz mechanism. Whatever excuse is given, the real reason is that it is the easiest and/or cheapest way out.

I've no problem with a temporary substitution, whilst the original is repaired, noting however that 'temporary' can so often easily become permanent as other jobs take priority!

And if somebody wants to make an impulse slave functional without its corresponding master, there are solid-state impulse units available which generate output pulses to simulate the electro-mechanical master. But they are missing the pleasure of the genuine article!

Andy
M0FYA Andy is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 8:52 am   #12
Mike Phelan
Dekatron
 
Mike Phelan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 4,609
Default Re: Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

I'm completely with you on that, Andy. Nearly as bad is to fit a low-voltage stator coil.
__________________
Mike.
Mike Phelan is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 8:57 am   #13
Mike Phelan
Dekatron
 
Mike Phelan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 4,609
Default Re: Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil G4SPZ View Post
Whilst I normally admire Steve Fletcher's skills, he definitely went down in my estimation for that bit of sacrilege. Sad, but not atypical. I have known several highly skilled and capable craftsmen who virtually go to pieces whenever electricity (particularly mains electricity) is present.
I watched this programme and thought Steve was a good craftsman until then.
It wasn't a vintage clock any longer, just a modern clock in an old case ...
__________________
Mike.
Mike Phelan is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 10:49 am   #14
Nickthedentist
Dekatron
 
Nickthedentist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 17,820
Default Re: Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

That's a lovely clock, Phil, with Ferranti's very compact postwar movement. I've never seen one stop due to wear (yet) so well done for getting it running. The styling is very much of the 1930s so it must have appeared rather old-fashioned when it went on sale.
Nickthedentist is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 10:51 am   #15
Nickthedentist
Dekatron
 
Nickthedentist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 17,820
Default Re: Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MurphyNut View Post
I managed to find a quartz mechanism with chrome look hands that matched the chrome numbers on the face very well.
Very nice, Steve. Personally, though, I'd remove the seconds hand entirely as it's an instant giveaway that it's not got its original movement.

The original hands may well have had a more geometric look to them e.g. https://lespook.files.wordpress.com/...6-may-12-a.jpg

Last edited by Nickthedentist; 25th Mar 2018 at 11:03 am.
Nickthedentist is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 10:53 am   #16
Nickthedentist
Dekatron
 
Nickthedentist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 17,820
Default Re: Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil G4SPZ View Post
Some of the quartz movement suppliers provide a wide choice of stylish hands.
Again, that looks nice, Phil.

Note that collets are available so that you can fit original hands to a suitable (Euroshaft) quartz movement, should there be no other alternative and you want to make a permanent job of it:

https://www.cousinsuk.com/category/hand-collets-quartz

Last edited by Nickthedentist; 25th Mar 2018 at 11:04 am.
Nickthedentist is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 10:56 am   #17
Nickthedentist
Dekatron
 
Nickthedentist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 17,820
Default Re: Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0FYA Andy View Post
I was very much referring to the disturbingly common practice of removing a repairable or, even worse, a perfectly serviceable movement from a clock, discarding it and substituting a quartz mechanism. Whatever excuse is given, the real reason is that it is the easiest and/or cheapest way out.
I quite agree too, Andy.

I'm currently working on a lovely, art Deco, Ferranti mantel clock which I bought cheaply via eBay because someone had removed its original movement and replaced it with a (now failed) quartz job, albeit a long time ago judging by the style of the movement (early 1980s?). But at least the hands had been retained, and the fact that the clock had carried on working meant that somebody cherished it rather than consigning it to a damp shed or worse. The solution these days is easy - buy an original movement, or an unrestorable clock with the correct movement from good old eBay, then re-unite the two
Nickthedentist is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 11:00 am   #18
Nickthedentist
Dekatron
 
Nickthedentist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 17,820
Default Re: Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Phelan View Post
Nearly as bad is to fit a low-voltage stator coil.
Likewise, I'd never destroy an intact mains coil to re-wind it for LT.

However, for those of us faced with an O/C coil who haven't the means or skill to re-wind with the perilously thin wire required for mains operation, surely a low-voltage rewind is not too much of a sin, not least because it could always be re-done the "proper" way later.

Nick.
Nickthedentist is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 11:54 am   #19
Phil G4SPZ
Dekatron
 
Phil G4SPZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,735
Default Re: Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickthedentist View Post
Again, that looks nice, Phil.

Note that collets are available so that you can fit original hands to a suitable (Euroshaft) quartz movement, should there be no other alternative and you want to make a permanent job of it:

https://www.cousinsuk.com/category/hand-collets-quartz
Thanks, Nick, and for the useful tip and the link. I've used Cousins before, and also HS Walsh for clock parts and tools.
__________________
Phil

Optimist [n]: One who is not in possession of the full facts
Phil G4SPZ is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 3:05 pm   #20
julie_m
Dekatron
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Derby, UK.
Posts: 7,735
Default Re: Ferranti model 12 synchronous electric clock (1952)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Phelan View Post
I'm completely with you on that, Andy. Nearly as bad is to fit a low-voltage stator coil.
I don't think that rewinding a clock for low-voltage operation is sacrilegeous, but a reliabliity enhancement -- allowing the use of a more-robust gauge of wire. After all, the only reason you would do it is because the original failed in the first place. And the use of a power transformer to provide an isolated low voltage supply could be seen as a safety improvement.

Of course, any such modification needs to have attention drawn to it, for the sake of anybody working on the clock in future.
__________________
If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.

Last edited by julie_m; 25th Mar 2018 at 3:05 pm. Reason: Hit post too soon
julie_m is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 7:05 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.