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Television Standards Converters, Modulators etc Standards converters, modulators anything else for providing signals to vintage televisions. |
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#61 | |
Pentode
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 213
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your video http://www.taswegian.com/NBTV/forum/...hp?f=15&t=3143 Well check that windows is detecting both monitors in dual displays . select one as you desk top other extended display . If the pc boots up with both displays thats good ! Next load mode line by copy paste to the large white empty menu box . I would do one at a time as some i have found don't work for me . Look at my post 2 post back at the image of mode line menu all those worked for me apart from 180 line . I will post what i have handy here my workable ones will be in among those below . Modeline "664x377_25 10.1kHz 50.0Hz" 8.100 664 680 752 800 377 378 385 405 interlace -hsync -vsync Modeline "560x220_25 6.0kHz 25.0Hz" 3.750 560 568 584 624 220 221 233 240 -hsync -vsync Modeline "656x383_25 11.0kHz 50.0Hz" 8.820 656 665 744 800 383 384 392 441 interlace -hsync +vsync Modeline "640x540_25 15.6kHz 50.0Hz" 13.620 640 694 758 872 540 556 562 625 interlace -hsync -vsync Modeline "570x456_30 15.7kHz 59.9Hz" 12.080 570 621 678 768 456 472 478 525 interlace -hsync -vsync Modeline "1500x580_25 15.6kHz 50.0Hz" 26.880 1500 1508 1605 1720 580 582 596 625 interlace -hsync -vsync Other mode lines to try on a monitor build below Modeline "1200x220_25 6.0kHz 25.0Hz" 8.020 1200 1210 1251 1336 220 221 232 240 hsync-vsync Modeline "664x377_25 10.1kHz 50.0Hz" 8.100 664 680 752 800 377 378 386 405 interlace-hsync -vsync Modeline "996x377_25 10.1kHz 50.0Hz" 12.150 996 1008 1131 1200 377 378 386 405 interlace-hsync-vsync Modeline '900x180_25 4.5kHz 25.0Hz" 4.050 664 728 784 900 170 172 176 180 hsync -vsync "Modeline ""664x377_2510.1kHz 50.1Hz"" 8.100 664 680 752 800 376 378 384 404 interlace·hsync·vsync" Modeline "1120x220_25 6,0kHz 25,0Hz" 7.488 1120 1136 1168 1248 220 221 233 240 -hsync -vsync Modeline "1680x220_25 6,0kHz 25,0Hz" 11.232 1680 1704 1752 1872 220 221 233 240 -hsync -vsync" "Modeline ""664x377_2510.1kHz 50.0Hz"" 8.100 664 680 752 800 377 378 395 405 interlace +hsync -vsync" "Modeline ""1680x220_25 6.0kHz 25.0Hz"" 11.230 1680 1704 17521872 220 221233240 +hsync -vsync" The ones that work will come up green(if in red will not work with out code change ) that arrow next to say if you selected 405 line at 664x377 you select and it will ask you to reboot yes reboot and once your back select it again and it will now work one of the monitors will go off and that vga will be outputting 405 line at this size 664x377 so it will not be all the display say some mode line at 1680x220 this size would be showing all the desktop well thats what i am finding . Easy when you know very hard with no instructions ! I found to if i left the pc in mode line displaying say again 405 line for a long time pressing the esc button to go back to the monitor display it would not work i had to reboot the pc more than likely my PC than a normal thing . But yes ESC button you go back to the desk top monitor . |
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#62 |
Pentode
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 213
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By the way i never bothered selecting the VGA 1 Or VGA 2 box's the thing works as is better the devil you know !
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#63 |
Dekatron
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 18,583
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I've just been reading through your various trials and tribulations on
http://www.taswegian.com/NBTV/forum/...hp?f=15&t=3143 and I got to the point where one or (worse) both of your monitors were blank because the graphics card was outputting a TV mode and a reboot didn't change the resolution, and you were contemplating reinstaling the entire OS... ...STOP, Windows Safe Mode is your freind (tap F8 while reboting) that will give you a picture of sorts on your screens.
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-- Graham. G3ZVT |
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#64 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, UK.
Posts: 5,388
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Hi.
Thanks for all the input. Will wait till I've got a VGA switch and then proceed. I'm going to make up a lead though in the first instance to feed my modulator.
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Cheers, Trevor. MM0KJJ. RSGB, GQRP, WACRAL, K&LARC. Member |
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#65 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, UK.
Posts: 5,388
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Hi.
If each RGB output is terminated with a 75 ohm resistor will the graphics card not see this as a monitor and report unknown monitor?
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Cheers, Trevor. MM0KJJ. RSGB, GQRP, WACRAL, K&LARC. Member |
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#66 |
Dekatron
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
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I don't think that will work Trevor, the monitor identification appears to be done digitally
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_Data_Channel I've tried disconnecting pin 12 and/or 15 but I couldn't fool it. Anyway, if like me, you are using your normal computer, having a second monitor as an extended desktop is a massive enhancement for normal computer stuff. Another thing worth mentioning, is there is a useful +5v supply on pin 9 but my cheap VGA switch box does not pass it through, so I soldered a wire link.
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-- Graham. G3ZVT |
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#67 | |
Pentode
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 213
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I put in sockets / vga from pc card to vga socket ]------(circuit for 405 line )-------[ and to monitor video plug to your tv IN between all the wiring |
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#68 | |
Pentode
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 213
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Its very well behaved at the moment working every time so i am careful not to change display settings now that it works ,the main problem was i think i have 2 different brand monitors twice as much trouble ![]() https://www.epanorama.net/faq/vga2rgb/calc.html i would if this would be of use not tried it yet . |
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#69 |
Pentode
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 213
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Bit more work on my 405 line monitor
worked more on the deflection today and getting bit better . Got to look into blanking that would be nice and invert the video the CRT is upside down BTW just to work on the yoke when needed. |
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#70 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, UK.
Posts: 5,388
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Hi.
Well some progress and some steps back. I dissected a lead and made up the interface with the exception that I terminated each RGB lead with 100r to ground and plugged in at that point, I was greeted with VGA 2 unknown monitor so I then finished the interface, connected the output to a modulator which does both UHF & VHF, at this point I tried without modeline changes, indeed my Sony had three desktops and rolling frame...... All good. I then added in the modeline for 625 and it saved after reboot. Problems though it only works if you select screen 2, the main goes blank for 20 seconds then reappears, the resultant picture on the Sony is grim although locked up its low in level, smeary and with overshoot. It won't work with duplicate screens etc. I also tried 405 and it won't work as 377 is an error. Help needed as I'm no PC Genius
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Cheers, Trevor. MM0KJJ. RSGB, GQRP, WACRAL, K&LARC. Member |
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#71 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, UK.
Posts: 5,388
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Success!!!!
All sorted now and working. 405, 441 and 625 lines programmed in. A lot of fiddling including loosing my main monitor for a while but the excellent definition of 405 let me back into settings and I was able to restore my Sony LCD TV I use as the main monitor. Really chuffed and thanks for the help guys. Here is a quick video, pretty naff TBH and not the best quality I'm afraid. https://youtu.be/5B0NXuJSRi4
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Cheers, Trevor. MM0KJJ. RSGB, GQRP, WACRAL, K&LARC. Member |
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#72 |
Pentode
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 213
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Arrrr great to hear and i felt your pain with the first message !
Once you set it up its pretty easy ,i think mode line has made a old pc into a great bit of test gear how many system converters can also do what a pc does i would say none ! but here we have a systems converter that also can system convert every thing photo video wise on your PC and the WWW. i can now make monitors for old tv systems where i couldn't before made the old hobby more interesting . And for you guys using it for old sets does it get any better ...cheap and easy |
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#73 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, UK.
Posts: 5,388
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Hi.
In reality it's not a converter, it's not converting one standard to another its merely generating a new standard whether 240.405.441.625 or whatever Modeline is programmed so there is no conversion loss. With the shortage of chips these days I believe its madness not to do it this way. Cheap and very effective.
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#74 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Edinburgh, UK.
Posts: 3,259
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Peter ![]() |
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#75 |
Dekatron
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 18,583
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Just to add to the last two posts
THIS link points to an evaluation copy VidblasterX ver 4.1.1 Click on the big blue Download Now but close any pop-ups that relate to any other software. I know it's an old version of Vidblaster, but it's the only one I've been able to set up for a proper aspect ratio with the modeline system we've been using. To explain, it's a vision switcher that crucially has the ability to send the output to the 2nd monitor port, ie to our modulator. At a minimum, you need the following modules: A "Still Store" for your testcards and other graphics. A "Player" for your videos (I call it telecine) The "Switcher" module Two "Monitors" and lastly an "Output" module Drag the modules to where you want them on the screen, as you add them. Right-click on each module to get to its configuration menu: PLAYER and STILL STORE "Open" navigate to the wanted video/image file "Aspect Ratio" 1.78 MONITOR 1 "Display size 25%" "Source" Preview MONITOR 2 "Display size 25%" "Source" Program OUTPUT "Source" Program "Destination" Display 1 (Which is the second monitor on my system). Click "Video" on the top menu and select Resolution 1920*1080 (full HD). Then "Video" Frame rate 25. As you would expect the 1.78:1 (16:9) gives laterally stretched results within Vidblaster but the result at 405 is perfect. In use, fire up Winmodelines first, selecting Video 1 Make sure the destination of the "Output" module is still Display 1, and turn it "ON". Now you should be able to select your sources on the program bus of the switcher (mixer). I've never written up this before, hope there are not too many mistakes, hope you all give it a try, it's a lot better than "sliding" the pictures onto the 405 line screen.
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-- Graham. G3ZVT Last edited by Graham G3ZVT; 24th Jul 2022 at 9:26 pm. |
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#76 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, UK.
Posts: 5,388
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Hi Graham.
Boy that sounds complicated, I will though give it all a go and see if I can get it to work. I'll certainly report back with my results. Thanks for the guidance.
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Cheers, Trevor. MM0KJJ. RSGB, GQRP, WACRAL, K&LARC. Member |
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#77 |
Dekatron
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
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Once you get the hang of it you can build a complete studio on your desktop.
Have you seen my video? https://youtu.be/ahzdx4KgWBg BTW I lied when I said you need the above as a minimum, for example if you just want a test card "C" generator you just need two modules, a "still store" and the "output" you don't need the "switcher".
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-- Graham. G3ZVT |
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#78 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, UK.
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Thanks Graham.
Now I see what you are doing regarding the program. I'll hopefully get time today to see what to do. I'll come back here with my findings in due course.
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Cheers, Trevor. MM0KJJ. RSGB, GQRP, WACRAL, K&LARC. Member |
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#79 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Edinburgh, UK.
Posts: 3,259
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I've not used your video scheme but I must admit that I have recently had some problems with sliding the pictures when using VLC player for 240 line videos. I could slide them across and then have difficulty in getting them back because the TV is at the other side of the room from my PC and I struggled to see where my cursor was on the TV screen. Peter ![]() |
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#80 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, UK.
Posts: 5,388
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Hi.
Well after some hiccups it works and beautifully. Will do some videos when I've fully got the hang of it. Thanks
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Cheers, Trevor. MM0KJJ. RSGB, GQRP, WACRAL, K&LARC. Member Last edited by murphyv310; 25th Jul 2022 at 4:04 pm. |
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