BBC tape reclamation service - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

brenellic2000 · 17th May 2011, 10:54 am

Does anyone know the story of the BBC's Tape Reclamation service?
- when did it begin
- where was it based
- what was its prime purpose - economise by recycling master tape into general duty use; 'combining' half used tapes - and how often was a tape recycled
- what decks did they use
- did they restore recordings or was that a specialist department?

Barry

brianc · 17th May 2011, 1:02 pm

As far as I know, there were a couple of machines in the basement of Television Centre which were used for the checking of tapes once the program material was deemed "worthless"! There were a couple of big Wiercliffe (?) bulk erasers which actually did the deed. This was in the mid 1960s. Later, Recortec tape cleaning and reclamation machines were installed which checked the tapes end to end for dropouts, mechanical edits etc. and gave a printed profile. This is all from memory so needs to be confirmed by others!

brenellic2000 · 17th May 2011, 2:23 pm

Thanks.

When they say 'reclaimation' what did they 'reclaim'? Clearly the Weircliffe bulk erased - but did they also splice tapes to get a 'serviceable' general duty spool of tape for recording copies of programmes for researchers using their Robuks, Brenells etc?

Barry

Mach One · 17th May 2011, 2:53 pm

In radio, anyway, tapes were returned to the Tape Reclamation Department so that they could be recycled. This involved making up (splicing, I seem to remember) full reels of tape (5", 7" and 10-and-a-half inch) for re-use. I do not know how they decided if any tape was beyond recycling.

The last place that Tape Reclamation was sited was Daventry, believe it or not. With the advent of digital, and the re-development of the site, I guess it's all gone.

paulsherwin · 17th May 2011, 3:07 pm

I'm surprised the BBC bothered to do this, even given the large quantities of tape involved. It's very difficult to make a splice which is completely inaudible at 7.5ips, and previously spliced tape is much more difficult to edit. I suppose it would have been suitable for programme logging.

Lodgesound · 17th May 2011, 5:18 pm

The answer to this is yes they did in the basement of Television Centre.

I worked there from 1989 - 1996 and the basement was where reclamation of videotapes was done - this was basically C Format one inch during my time but as we went over to D3 and Digital Betacam these were also done.

They had Recortec machines along with dropout analysers - tapes beyond a certain level of dropout were discarded.

Audio tapes were also processed but I believe that there were no joins allowed mid-reel for obvious reasons.

brenellic2000 · 17th May 2011, 5:25 pm

Paul, don't forget that these recycled tapes were not intended for high-quality audio but for reporting and researching copies of master-tapes and by programme editors -hence the large number of semi-pro Ferrographs and Brenell Mk.5 and Mk.6 'often used as door stops'.

What exactly is a 'Recortec' machine - an oscilloscope?

Barry

Lodgesound · 17th May 2011, 6:11 pm

....It's effectively a tape "Hoover" - it used to vacuum clean tapes whilst spooling them.

Quite amazing it did'nt damage more tapes really - in my workplace currently we have both 2" and 1" Racal dry paper media cleaning machines - a snip at a mere £27 000 each...

Ted Kendall · 17th May 2011, 9:14 pm

The last incarnation of the tape reclamation service used Scully based machines with two take-up turntables. The tape was run through at around 30ips and a test signal recorded on three tracks across the tape. Significant variation in output caused the machine to stop and any joints or faulty sections were rectified. Reclaimed tape was not popular in TS, although actually pretty good, as you could occasionally hear the tape characteristics change across a service joint, sometimes due to batch variations, sometimes due to velour effect. The economics of tape reclamation were unquestionably viable for the Corporation in general - the turnover of stock was enormous - and the Zonal stuff we were using survived re-use well. Zonal 675, incidentally, must have been one of the best analogue tapes ever made - flawless finish, no oxide shed, immaculate spooling - the stuff was a joy to work with, and it sounded good, too.

John_BS · 17th May 2011, 11:33 pm

I think there may be a mix of TV and Audio in this thread......

I know that a colleague (Mick Gleave, BBC Designs Dept.) designed an in-house machine for reclaiming audio tape: as described earlier, it ran the tape at high speed and looked for any drop-outs or changes in sensitivity. Any splices which were less than perfect would lead to rejection. This would have been in the 80's.

John

peter_sol · 18th May 2011, 8:19 am

I know for sure that the BBC local radio stations used to splice up short peices of tape and erase them for use by the news reporters.

Ted Kendall · 18th May 2011, 10:14 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by John_BS

I think there may be a mix of TV and Audio in this thread......

I know that a colleague (Mick Gleave, BBC Designs Dept.) designed an in-house machine for reclaiming audio tape: as described earlier, it ran the tape at high speed and looked for any drop-outs or changes in sensitivity. Any splices which were less than perfect would lead to rejection. This would have been in the 80's.

John

Agreed - I was doing my workshop training at ED in 1980/81 and the machines were being built then.

brenellic2000 · 18th May 2011, 1:15 pm

University Challenge time!

Starter for Ten:
This photo is from Wireless World, December 1980:
- what is the deck and what is the big black box on the desk
- I presume the bin and independent capstan is for spooling off duff tape
- and where was this?

Your bonus for 10:
- What's the girl's name and number?!

Barry

mrmagnetophon · 18th May 2011, 6:21 pm

Hello Barry,
The deck looks to be scully, the big black box is what is recording the signal and then the vu on it allows you to visibly check the playback of that signal, the cage on the right under the desk is the power supply for the machine, the pancake spool is most likely for the garbage tape or perhaps for also spooling to make a splice or something. It was probably in the basement of the bbc i assume.
-Chris

John_BS · 18th May 2011, 8:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by brenellic2000

University Challenge time!

- and where was this?

Your bonus for 10:
- What's the girl's name and number?!

Barry

I think this photo is from the BBC Engineering Information sheet for the reclamation machine. Taken somewhere in Western House, Gildea Street. The girl, as I recall, worked in Designs Dept. her number would have been 01 580 4468 Ext. wxyz.....

Big Band Heaven · 18th May 2011, 10:33 pm

Ah, at last - the very machines that committed such crimes against history are unvailed!

brenellic2000 · 19th May 2011, 10:44 am

Thanks lads! Thank God for paper archives and not digital/electronic ones!

17th May 2011, 10:54 am	#1
brenellic2000 Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 1,647	BBC tape reclamation service Does anyone know the story of the BBC's Tape Reclamation service? - when did it begin - where was it based - what was its prime purpose - economise by recycling master tape into general duty use; 'combining' half used tapes - and how often was a tape recycled - what decks did they use - did they restore recordings or was that a specialist department? Barry

17th May 2011, 1:02 pm	#2
brianc Rest in Peace Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Burghfield, Reading, Berkshire, UK, Posts: 1,055	Re: BBC tape reclamation service As far as I know, there were a couple of machines in the basement of Television Centre which were used for the checking of tapes once the program material was deemed "worthless"! There were a couple of big Wiercliffe (?) bulk erasers which actually did the deed. This was in the mid 1960s. Later, Recortec tape cleaning and reclamation machines were installed which checked the tapes end to end for dropouts, mechanical edits etc. and gave a printed profile. This is all from memory so needs to be confirmed by others!

17th May 2011, 2:23 pm	#3
brenellic2000 Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 1,647	Re: BBC tape reclamation service Thanks. When they say 'reclaimation' what did they 'reclaim'? Clearly the Weircliffe bulk erased - but did they also splice tapes to get a 'serviceable' general duty spool of tape for recording copies of programmes for researchers using their Robuks, Brenells etc? Barry

17th May 2011, 2:53 pm	#4
Mach One Heptode Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Shoreham-by-Sea, West Sussex, UK. Posts: 611	Re: BBC tape reclamation service In radio, anyway, tapes were returned to the Tape Reclamation Department so that they could be recycled. This involved making up (splicing, I seem to remember) full reels of tape (5", 7" and 10-and-a-half inch) for re-use. I do not know how they decided if any tape was beyond recycling. The last place that Tape Reclamation was sited was Daventry, believe it or not. With the advent of digital, and the re-development of the site, I guess it's all gone.

17th May 2011, 3:07 pm	#5
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,966	Re: BBC tape reclamation service I'm surprised the BBC bothered to do this, even given the large quantities of tape involved. It's very difficult to make a splice which is completely inaudible at 7.5ips, and previously spliced tape is much more difficult to edit. I suppose it would have been suitable for programme logging.

17th May 2011, 5:18 pm	#6
Lodgesound Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Surrey, UK. Posts: 66	Re: BBC tape reclamation service The answer to this is yes they did in the basement of Television Centre. I worked there from 1989 - 1996 and the basement was where reclamation of videotapes was done - this was basically C Format one inch during my time but as we went over to D3 and Digital Betacam these were also done. They had Recortec machines along with dropout analysers - tapes beyond a certain level of dropout were discarded. Audio tapes were also processed but I believe that there were no joins allowed mid-reel for obvious reasons.

17th May 2011, 5:25 pm	#7
brenellic2000 Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 1,647	Re: BBC tape reclamation service Paul, don't forget that these recycled tapes were not intended for high-quality audio but for reporting and researching copies of master-tapes and by programme editors -hence the large number of semi-pro Ferrographs and Brenell Mk.5 and Mk.6 'often used as door stops'. What exactly is a 'Recortec' machine - an oscilloscope? Barry

17th May 2011, 6:11 pm	#8
Lodgesound Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Surrey, UK. Posts: 66	Re: BBC tape reclamation service ....It's effectively a tape "Hoover" - it used to vacuum clean tapes whilst spooling them. Quite amazing it did'nt damage more tapes really - in my workplace currently we have both 2" and 1" Racal dry paper media cleaning machines - a snip at a mere £27 000 each...

17th May 2011, 9:14 pm	#9
Ted Kendall Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 3,675	Re: BBC tape reclamation service The last incarnation of the tape reclamation service used Scully based machines with two take-up turntables. The tape was run through at around 30ips and a test signal recorded on three tracks across the tape. Significant variation in output caused the machine to stop and any joints or faulty sections were rectified. Reclaimed tape was not popular in TS, although actually pretty good, as you could occasionally hear the tape characteristics change across a service joint, sometimes due to batch variations, sometimes due to velour effect. The economics of tape reclamation were unquestionably viable for the Corporation in general - the turnover of stock was enormous - and the Zonal stuff we were using survived re-use well. Zonal 675, incidentally, must have been one of the best analogue tapes ever made - flawless finish, no oxide shed, immaculate spooling - the stuff was a joy to work with, and it sounded good, too.

17th May 2011, 11:33 pm	#10
John_BS Octode Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Wincanton, Somerset, UK. Posts: 1,782	Re: BBC tape reclamation service I think there may be a mix of TV and Audio in this thread...... I know that a colleague (Mick Gleave, BBC Designs Dept.) designed an in-house machine for reclaiming audio tape: as described earlier, it ran the tape at high speed and looked for any drop-outs or changes in sensitivity. Any splices which were less than perfect would lead to rejection. This would have been in the 80's. John

18th May 2011, 8:19 am	#11
peter_sol Octode Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Welwyn Garden City, Herts. UK. Posts: 1,906	Re: BBC tape reclamation service I know for sure that the BBC local radio stations used to splice up short peices of tape and erase them for use by the news reporters.

18th May 2011, 1:15 pm	#13
brenellic2000 Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 1,647	Re: BBC tape reclamation service University Challenge time! Starter for Ten: This photo is from Wireless World, December 1980: - what is the deck and what is the big black box on the desk - I presume the bin and independent capstan is for spooling off duff tape - and where was this? Your bonus for 10: - What's the girl's name and number?! Barry Attached Thumbnails

18th May 2011, 6:21 pm	#14
mrmagnetophon Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Ohio, USA. Posts: 757	Re: BBC tape reclamation service Hello Barry, The deck looks to be scully, the big black box is what is recording the signal and then the vu on it allows you to visibly check the playback of that signal, the cage on the right under the desk is the power supply for the machine, the pancake spool is most likely for the garbage tape or perhaps for also spooling to make a splice or something. It was probably in the basement of the bbc i assume. -Chris

18th May 2011, 10:33 pm	#16
Big Band Heaven Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 160	Re: BBC tape reclamation service Ah, at last - the very machines that committed such crimes against history are unvailed!

19th May 2011, 10:44 am	#17
brenellic2000 Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 1,647	Re: BBC tape reclamation service Thanks lads! Thank God for paper archives and not digital/electronic ones!