Fidelity HF29 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

112stereo · 10th Nov 2018, 6:49 pm

Can anyone please help ?
My friend has asked me to repair his Fidelity HF29 record player.
My first job was to service the deck as it was totally seized, then I discovered the cartridge had died. The cartridge is a BSR X1M the spec says it has over a volt output and I am struggling to find something compatible. Tried a Sonotone, just as a test, with an output of 450mv I get sound but very weak.
If you put your finger on the red lead of the cartridge there is a very loud hum which I would expect so the amp seems OK.
The amp however is a very basic transistor type, a bit Heath Robinson if I am honest.
That is one issue, but since I have been working on it a wire has come adrift it feeds the power to the amp from a very small transformer. It's on the primary side one lead comes from the deck but it's the other one that's broken off.
I am assuming that it connects to the common or earth side of the amp , but not 100% sure.
Does anyone ever worked or seen this model ?
Any help/advice would be amazing.

Station X · 10th Nov 2018, 9:02 pm

There appears to be very little information on this player. Perhaps you could post a picture of the amplifier and identify the active devices.

112stereo · 10th Nov 2018, 9:46 pm

Here's a couple of pictures, hope they help.
I have tagged the suspect wire to the strip just above the right hand top screw.

ms660 · 10th Nov 2018, 11:00 pm

I would imagine that wire connects to one of the other motor wires at the on/off switch, not sure which one though at the moment but to me it looks dodgy where it's connected to at present because it means that one end of the transformer's primary is connected to what I think is the amplifier's +ve rail which appears to have an earth connection, if the earth connections weren't sound the +ve rail could become live.

Lawrence.

teetoon · 11th Nov 2018, 1:13 am

Hi, this is one of those rare models between valve and solid state production.
The little transformer seems to be dropping the 90 volt tap from the motor so the black wire that came loose must go to one side of the mains.
The other black wire is connected to the white from the motor which is the 90 volt tap.
Can you see the remains of a soldered wire anywhere near the mains switch. The other clue is in the length of the wire. It definitely looks to have come from the switch area.

Hope this helps.
David.

112stereo · 11th Nov 2018, 10:01 am

Thank you I will definitely check that area out and post a reply later.

112stereo · 11th Nov 2018, 3:53 pm

Switch has now failed, nothing on the internet.......is it worth it ?

Edward Huggins · 11th Nov 2018, 5:47 pm

Do you mean the on/off switch on the volume control?

Station X · 11th Nov 2018, 8:56 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 112stereo

Switch has now failed, nothing on the internet.......is it worth it ?

Just bridge the switch out for the time being. If you can get the amp working it's probably worth repairing or replacing the switch.

112stereo · 12th Nov 2018, 12:44 pm

The volume control is ok but the power switch has gone, no click and it's in the off position.
Because of the way it's mounted there is nothing on the internet, however, I could fit a small rocker switch somewhere as it's not going to be sold but used at car boot sales just to attract customers.

]Bridged the switch and it works again , still trying to find a high output cartridge.
Do you know anything about a Tetroid TC12M1 cartridge, a friend has one and thought it was a med to high output , but I can't find anything about it on the internet. Tried a sonotone 9ta cartridge and you can hear it but at full volume.

Edward Huggins · 12th Nov 2018, 1:02 pm

It's quite unusual for a transistor amplifier to use (or need) a high-output cartridge.
Do bear in mind that any NOS cartridge, whether medium or high output, you buy for this is going to cost in the region of £35 to £40. The 9TA Sonotone cartridge you are testing it with has a relatively low output for a medium output cartridge. It is a high quality one and not really suited to this class of record player. I am not familiar with the "Tetroid" type.

paulsherwin · 12th Nov 2018, 1:07 pm

If you are trying to do a low cost repair you could try fitting one of the cheap red Chinese cartridges available for less than £2. These are not high output cartridges, but usually have enough output for a transistor amp.

I suspect there is some other fault which is reducing the volume. The difference between 500mV and 1V output is only 3dB which is barely audible.

112stereo · 12th Nov 2018, 6:54 pm

Ok. Thank you everyone for your input.
I might try a cheap one just as a guide to the amp's ability.
A circuit diagram at this stage would be useful!

John10b · 13th Nov 2018, 10:14 am

Just remember the cheap Red Cartridges do not come with a fixing bracket, I bought a bracket from “get the needle” for about £7.
Cheers
John

crackle · 13th Nov 2018, 12:00 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 112stereo

The volume control is ok but the power switch has gone, no click and it's in the off position.
Because of the way it's mounted there is nothing on the internet, however, I could fit a small rocker switch somewhere as it's not going to be sold but used at car boot sales just to attract customers.

It looks as if the volume pot is mounted onto the PCB, any of the many switched pots of the correct value would be suitable to replace that.
may not be the correct value but one like this should work. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350819414984?

Regarding the circuit, find a similar record player (any make) with similar transistors and use that as the basis to make notes on, then compare to what you have and draw on what is different.
It cant be that difficult, there are probably only 3 or 4 transistors, and you may actually be able to leave something to help the next person to get one of these.

Mike

'LIVEWIRE?' · 13th Nov 2018, 12:25 pm

In the past I've used switched pots. similar to that in the eBay link in Mike's post #15, with the nearest available value to the original (e.g., if original was 50k -used a 47k, etc.) If the new pot. couldn't be soldered directly to the P.C.B. I 'hard-wired' it instead.

crackle · 13th Nov 2018, 6:00 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by crackle

Regarding the circuit, find a similar record player (any make) with similar transistors and use that as the basis to make notes on, then compare to what you have and draw on what is different.
It cant be that difficult, there are probably only 3 or 4 transistors, and you may actually be able to leave something to help the next person to get one of these.

Mike

Looks like it wont be so easy, I can only find one other record player with 3 transistors and no driver transformers, but the preamp one is silicon, your one looks like a germanium transistor.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/balcombe_532.html
I happen to have this one in my shed.

Mike

Edward Huggins · 13th Nov 2018, 6:28 pm

An interesting thread. After all these years, I have never come across a Fidelity HF29.
The HF35 was one of, if not the last, Fidelity valve record player made (there was a transistor version also called HF35) but in the Fidelity model numbering sequence the 29 precedes this. I'm guessing therefore that this is very first transistor player they ever made. The BSR UA25 deck dates it as from mid-1964 onwards.

paulsherwin · 13th Nov 2018, 6:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by John10b

Just remember the cheap Red Cartridges do not come with a fixing bracket, I bought a bracket from “get the needle” for about £7.
Cheers
John

You can mount the cartridge temporarily with a bit of blu-tak, though obviously that's not a good long term solution.

112stereo · 13th Nov 2018, 7:18 pm

Tried one of those cheap red cartridges a friend had and still have low output, quality is ok just low.
The level is about loud enough for a small room flat out.
I can only assume perhaps the amp has gone low gain ?
The volume control/ off-on switch is a 1m ohm which I am finding difficult to find even if I hard wire one the spindle would be wrong shape for the knobs as they are on extended spindles.
I will keep looking but it's taking up a lot of time for something that's not mine!

10th Nov 2018, 9:02 pm	#2
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Fidelity HF29 There appears to be very little information on this player. Perhaps you could post a picture of the amplifier and identify the active devices. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

10th Nov 2018, 9:46 pm	#3
112stereo Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St Albans, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 215	Re: Fidelity HF29 Here's a couple of pictures, hope they help. I have tagged the suspect wire to the strip just above the right hand top screw. Attached Thumbnails

10th Nov 2018, 11:00 pm	#4
ms660 Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 13,454	Re: Fidelity HF29 I would imagine that wire connects to one of the other motor wires at the on/off switch, not sure which one though at the moment but to me it looks dodgy where it's connected to at present because it means that one end of the transformer's primary is connected to what I think is the amplifier's +ve rail which appears to have an earth connection, if the earth connections weren't sound the +ve rail could become live. Lawrence.

11th Nov 2018, 1:13 am	#5
teetoon Heptode Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Barnstaple, N.Devon, UK. Posts: 557	Re: Fidelity HF29 Hi, this is one of those rare models between valve and solid state production. The little transformer seems to be dropping the 90 volt tap from the motor so the black wire that came loose must go to one side of the mains. The other black wire is connected to the white from the motor which is the 90 volt tap. Can you see the remains of a soldered wire anywhere near the mains switch. The other clue is in the length of the wire. It definitely looks to have come from the switch area. Hope this helps. David.

11th Nov 2018, 10:01 am	#6
112stereo Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St Albans, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 215	Re: Fidelity HF29 Thank you I will definitely check that area out and post a reply later.

10th Nov 2018, 6:49 pm	#1
112stereo Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St Albans, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 215	Fidelity HF29 Can anyone please help ? My friend has asked me to repair his Fidelity HF29 record player. My first job was to service the deck as it was totally seized, then I discovered the cartridge had died. The cartridge is a BSR X1M the spec says it has over a volt output and I am struggling to find something compatible. Tried a Sonotone, just as a test, with an output of 450mv I get sound but very weak. If you put your finger on the red lead of the cartridge there is a very loud hum which I would expect so the amp seems OK. The amp however is a very basic transistor type, a bit Heath Robinson if I am honest. That is one issue, but since I have been working on it a wire has come adrift it feeds the power to the amp from a very small transformer. It's on the primary side one lead comes from the deck but it's the other one that's broken off. I am assuming that it connects to the common or earth side of the amp , but not 100% sure. Does anyone ever worked or seen this model ? Any help/advice would be amazing.

11th Nov 2018, 3:53 pm	#7
112stereo Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St Albans, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 215	Re: Fidelity HF29 Switch has now failed, nothing on the internet.......is it worth it ?

11th Nov 2018, 5:47 pm	#8
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: Fidelity HF29 Do you mean the on/off switch on the volume control? __________________ Edward.

12th Nov 2018, 12:44 pm	#10
112stereo Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St Albans, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 215	Re: Fidelity HF29 The volume control is ok but the power switch has gone, no click and it's in the off position. Because of the way it's mounted there is nothing on the internet, however, I could fit a small rocker switch somewhere as it's not going to be sold but used at car boot sales just to attract customers. ]Bridged the switch and it works again , still trying to find a high output cartridge. Do you know anything about a Tetroid TC12M1 cartridge, a friend has one and thought it was a med to high output , but I can't find anything about it on the internet. Tried a sonotone 9ta cartridge and you can hear it but at full volume.

12th Nov 2018, 1:02 pm	#11
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: Fidelity HF29 It's quite unusual for a transistor amplifier to use (or need) a high-output cartridge. Do bear in mind that any NOS cartridge, whether medium or high output, you buy for this is going to cost in the region of £35 to £40. The 9TA Sonotone cartridge you are testing it with has a relatively low output for a medium output cartridge. It is a high quality one and not really suited to this class of record player. I am not familiar with the "Tetroid" type. __________________ Edward.

12th Nov 2018, 1:07 pm	#12
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,947	Re: Fidelity HF29 If you are trying to do a low cost repair you could try fitting one of the cheap red Chinese cartridges available for less than £2. These are not high output cartridges, but usually have enough output for a transistor amp. I suspect there is some other fault which is reducing the volume. The difference between 500mV and 1V output is only 3dB which is barely audible.

12th Nov 2018, 6:54 pm	#13
112stereo Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St Albans, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 215	Re: Fidelity HF29 Ok. Thank you everyone for your input. I might try a cheap one just as a guide to the amp's ability. A circuit diagram at this stage would be useful!

13th Nov 2018, 10:14 am	#14
John10b Nonode Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Aberaeron, Ceredigion, Wales, UK. Posts: 2,884	Re: Fidelity HF29 Just remember the cheap Red Cartridges do not come with a fixing bracket, I bought a bracket from “get the needle” for about £7. Cheers John

13th Nov 2018, 12:25 pm	#16
'LIVEWIRE?' Rest in Peace Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton) Posts: 7,306	Re: Fidelity HF29 In the past I've used switched pots. similar to that in the eBay link in Mike's post #15, with the nearest available value to the original (e.g., if original was 50k -used a 47k, etc.) If the new pot. couldn't be soldered directly to the P.C.B. I 'hard-wired' it instead.

13th Nov 2018, 6:28 pm	#18
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: Fidelity HF29 An interesting thread. After all these years, I have never come across a Fidelity HF29. The HF35 was one of, if not the last, Fidelity valve record player made (there was a transistor version also called HF35) but in the Fidelity model numbering sequence the 29 precedes this. I'm guessing therefore that this is very first transistor player they ever made. The BSR UA25 deck dates it as from mid-1964 onwards. __________________ Edward.

13th Nov 2018, 7:18 pm	#20
112stereo Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St Albans, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 215	Re: Fidelity HF29 Tried one of those cheap red cartridges a friend had and still have low output, quality is ok just low. The level is about loud enough for a small room flat out. I can only assume perhaps the amp has gone low gain ? The volume control/ off-on switch is a 1m ohm which I am finding difficult to find even if I hard wire one the spindle would be wrong shape for the knobs as they are on extended spindles. I will keep looking but it's taking up a lot of time for something that's not mine!