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Vintage Computers Any vintage computer systems, calculators, video games etc., but with an emphasis on 1980s and earlier equipment.

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Old 16th Apr 2015, 9:44 am   #21
ex seismic
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Default Re: Old & still used 486

I concur with other posters about the longevity of machines of the 386/486 era. The spray dryer I mentioned earlier has some friends at the same site using early Pentiums and W2000, running 24/7, full of assorted powders, and (fingers crossed) rarely fall over. All the offcie machines have been replaced a number of times in the same time period. And the company, bless them, are equally at risk because the software on those machines does not run on XP. I keep telling them...

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Old 16th Apr 2015, 11:15 am   #22
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Default Re: Old & still used 486

You shouldn't be too surprised to find that old software is no longer supported. It's a hostile world out there, and the cat and mouse game takes no prisoners.
It makes perfect sense to run DOS software on a computer designed to run it, not a much faster one deliberately strangled.
If you don't connect to the Internet, they'll all soldier on indefinitely doing what they were born to do.
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Old 16th Apr 2015, 8:00 pm   #23
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Default Re: Old & still used 486

I still sometimes encounter BBC micros running some older light up or animated museum displays. Give it a few more years and the computers can be put on display. There were also some BBC micros at my university in the chemistry labs running specific programs to control machines, as well as some vintage PCs, although I never looked much closer at them. Probably 486s as they had windows 3.11. Older computers with a single set purpose tend to survive updates as long as they keep working. I'd be surprised to find anything more than a few years old being used for multiple everyday tasks in an office however.

Old software can however hang on longer than the computers sometimes. In a second hand bookshop I work in, we've recently been through a difficult time getting our ancient database program running on a new computer. We have accumulated thousands of book records and customer records over the years in this software and just cannot get it to transfer to the newer (allegedly related) versions of the same software. Fortunately it still uploads to the sales site, and chances are support will continue for some time as changing it would risk the sales site loosing customers, but it can't continue forever. The users of the old software must be reducing over time.

Interestingly, I run a lot of old DOS and Windows software on Linux with good results. I use mainly DOSbox and WINE, both of which allow a lot of customisation of the environment the program is run in, which bizarrely makes Linux more compatible in my experience with old Windows software than current Windows versions.
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Old 17th Apr 2015, 9:05 am   #24
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In a second hand bookshop I work in, we've recently been through a difficult time getting our ancient database program running on a new computer. We have accumulated thousands of book records and customer records over the years in this software and just cannot get it to transfer to the newer (allegedly related) versions of the same software.
I hit the same issue quite often with ISP-level embedded systems [switches, routers, firewalls, VPN devices etc] - you're on a 5-year-old release of the software - which has just gone end-of-life - but the various files from this will not load to the current-generation 15.x software environment.

So you upgrade to an interim version - say 12.x, import your 10.x files to that, check it's all working OK, then export them from this to 15.x and all is happy.

Yes it's a lot of messing around but in many industries, keeping all your environments covered by full manufacturer support is a pre-requisite for passing audit.

[There are a *lot* of small businesses out there panicing because Microsoft are ending support for Windows Server 2003 in a few months, at which point any system running this will fail PCI-DSS compliance and so will not be permitted to be used for credit-card processing].
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Old 17th Apr 2015, 1:52 pm   #25
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Default Re: Old & still used 486

I think one source of trouble are the constant updates on windows, bloating and bogging down, and introducing errors which weren't there, and obligatory connection to the internet. I have a couple of lovely old macs, a G3 and a 9600, do lots of things and stay there while generations of PC's and os's pass away. Linux on my pc helps as of couse one needs a machine that can talk to the world. Be great if every machine had some simple, universal standard os as fall back, and give connectivity.
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Old 17th Apr 2015, 3:32 pm   #26
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At least with very ancient [DOS-only] systems you're likely to be safe from the modern genera of viruses and malware: though I did recently have a fresh reacquaintance with that 1990s favourite the "Telefonica" virus a.k.a. "Spanish Telecom" that spread via the boot sectors of floppy discs:

http://www.csie.ntu.edu.tw/~wcchen/a...N/TELEFO~1.HTM

that was widespread at one time. Remember to make sure your bootable floppies are write-protected, and don't accidentally leave a data-disk in your floppy-drive when booting!

Thankfully, the days of floppies are long dead for 99.999% of computer users so they no more need to worry about "Telefonica" than they need worry about their PC contracting Feline Influenza or Tomato Spotted Wilt viruses.
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Old 17th Apr 2015, 10:07 pm   #27
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It is a sad indictment of the industry that you can buy and own a computer, but its continued operation is dependent upon the owner investing time and money on an ongoing basis, until such time as a third-party software supplier unilaterally decides to terminate support. At this point, your computer becomes virtually worthless for most practical purposes.

You don't buy a computer and regard it as an asset. You hand over a large non-refundable deposit which buys you the ability to use the computer, within the terms and conditions dictated by numerous software providers, for a period of time which may extend to the end of the guarantee period and an undefined period thereafter, subject to your installing such updates as the unspecified software providers shall insist upon and at times of their choosing.

Computers. We can't live without them, but living with them is never easy.
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Old 18th Apr 2015, 1:52 am   #28
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Well, what you just described was what kicked off the Free Software movement.

Old application software could be kept going by running an instance of a compatible OS on a virtual machine with low-level legacy hardware emulation (i.e., interception of I/O port accesses).

The problems with insecure-by-design software could be avoided by running each process in a separate virtual machine. Such a "boil each grain of rice in a separate pan" approach is eminently feasible given the speed of modern processors compared to the emulation targets.
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Old 18th Apr 2015, 2:07 pm   #29
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Please stay on topic here.
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Old 20th Apr 2015, 1:21 am   #30
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Default Re: Old & still used 486

Not quite still in use sadly, but until a couple of years ago the system controlling our door locks and key fobs was still running on an AT era IBM machine (I can't remember the precise model I'm afraid). Green screen (with some horrific screen burn because it was never switched off) and all.

Despite my efforts to save it, it was still in the room when the demo crews moved in in 2013. Still working until a week or so before that when the power was cut off.

When in the US on holiday last summer I came across a point of sale machine at a bar/restaurant in the Upper Peninsula in Michigan which was plainly running Windows 3.0, so must be a few years old. Sadly I could only see the display section, so don't know what hardware was actually behind it.
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Old 24th Apr 2015, 12:30 am   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex seismic View Post
A company I do some work for have a little spray drying machine run off a 386
A popular make of spray dryer here in the potteries used to use BBC model B's.

Its just jogged my memory that a council-subsidised local coat hanger factory ran one of their main machines off a 486SX16. It was a very clever machine indeed, you drew a picture of a coat hanger on the screen with the cursor keys and it made one..or thousands like it. The only problems I had were the monitor going up in smoke and endless floppy disc failures due to being impregnated with metal dust. I think at the time I asked the forum how easy it would be to fit a USB memory stick floppy emulator.
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Old 2nd Jul 2015, 9:06 pm   #32
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Default Re: Old & still used 486

A bit old but I can think of a good contribution to this thread.

Got a few old calibration systems where I work hooked up via old IEEE488 interfaces to some real old controller machines.

One of them is a Compaq DeskPro 386/20E with a 20MB hard drive, running DOS 5.0. I think that machine is from about 1990.

The other is an Acorn RISC PC which runs (I think) RISC OS 4.

They've got a top end StrongARM RISC PC with a CD-ROM drive in the spares cupboard that I'm keeping an eye on for when they eventually scrap that system off. That one has a newer version of RISC OS installed, plus it has a 486DX secondary processor board installed.
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Old 3rd Jul 2015, 9:27 am   #33
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Default Re: Old & still used 486

As is ever the case I suspect many of us here have fond memories of a particular PC but even more regrets at not STILL having it!

All these examples make me want to go out and find an old PC just for the nostalgia - and isn't that precisely what this forum is all about?

Great contributions by all - thank you.
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Old 8th Jul 2015, 11:46 pm   #34
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I wish I still had my 486! SWOTL (Secret weapons of the Luftwaffe) worked like a dream on that, poxy DOS thing on my current 7yr old PC is pants!
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Old 24th Jul 2015, 1:41 pm   #35
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Default Re: Old & still used 486

Apparently it's supported by DOSbox, a free DOS emulator that runs on Windows and Linux. I can entirely understand how people keep and enjoy using original hardware, but my personal experience is that DOSbox is so good, you don't need to keep 90s era hardware around to continue playing your vintage PC games. However, I do think the graphics tend to look a bit nicer on the original CRT monitors.

On another note, I pulled out an old 486 the other day to do some things and I noticed how quickly it booted. It seems Windows 3.11 and the programs running on it were all pretty quick to load. Although computers do a lot more now, I think Windows is generally getting slower on average hardware. For basic tasks, it seems 486s might actually be better! My Windows 3.11 computer hardly ever crashed as I recall and didn't really need much maintenance either.
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Old 24th Jul 2015, 9:21 pm   #36
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Default Re: Old & still used 486

I too regret scrapping my PS-2, never failed me except when I did something dumb, and I enjoyed playing Lemmings on it. I've tried DOSbox but the graphics are poor.

However I recently found a version of Lemmings called Penguins or something like that, works on Linux, nice graphics.
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Old 25th Jul 2015, 1:02 pm   #37
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At my place of work we had an old Elonex 386SX-16 that was needed every now and then to drive a custom test jig and calibrate/test some legacy equipment. In order to stop the various managers or do-gooders or beancounters from throwing it out it had "DO NOT THROW THIS COMPUTER AWAY!" written across the top and sides in huge indelible marker pen. This message took up the whole area of each PC face and could be read at 20 yards. Otherwise it would have been in the bin within weeks of putting it in storage.

Sadly, I haven't seen it for several years now and I suspect that someone has finally decided that it should be binned. My first 'new' PC was the same model. I must have bought this about 25 years ago

The oldest PC I have here is an old Bondwell XT laptop from around 1985 although I don't use it any more.
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Old 23rd Aug 2015, 4:16 am   #38
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I've got a gigantic PS/2 Model 60 right next to me right now, though its only use is to support the Shuttle XPC on top of it on which I'm typing this
It worked last time I booted it, a couple of years ago, though. After I'd given the massive 42Mb hard drive a twizzle to unstick the heads!

They don't build 'em like this any more. Note the huge, terrifying PSU at the top and the two HD drive bays half way up, you could install two for an immense 84Mb of storage. It's also built like a tank, suitable as an impromptu seat for even the largest of persons.
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Old 23rd Aug 2015, 11:37 pm   #39
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I still possess my first home PC, a 486dx2 66. I used it until I discovered that the place I worked at the time was scrapping much higher spec machines, so its replacement was acquired at nil cost. Funnily enough, I took it in to the office with me to swap for the one I was saving from the scrap-man but it won a last minute reprieve at spent the next ten years gathering dust in the corner of my office. When I changed jobs earlier this year it came back home. I recently powered it up and was amazed how quickly it still loaded Dos/Windows 3.11. Much faster boot-up than my current Windows 7 PC.
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Old 23rd Aug 2015, 11:50 pm   #40
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I've got a gigantic PS/2 Model 60 right next to me right now, though its only use is to support the Shuttle XPC on top of it on which I'm typing this
That's a fantastic machine there, definitely the sort of thing that I'd love to find lurking in a dark dusty store room somewhere to add to what seems to be rapidly turning into a little vintage computing museum!

Not really in a practical use any more, but I've got an IBM Thinkpad 755Cs which last week I dragged back into the land of the living (it had previously been suffering a non-boot problem due to some file system corruption rendering the harddrive non-bootable). It's now become my default "legacy format opening device" and has more recently had of course a few old DOS era games thrown at it - though the DSTN smear-o-vision screen limits it there a bit, and its main purpose is going to be to be a portable "open old stuff" machine.

It has been thrown into real world use this week though when planning out furniture layouts for part of our house, for which I whipped out Autosketch 2.1 which I've had laying around since school and drew up some plans with to help see what would fit where.

Next project for that will probably be to re-stuff the battery pack (it's just made up of standard NiMH 2/3rd AA cells) which should restore its fully portable status too.

Not sure if I mentioned it before, but I do have a 386 based Toshiba T5200/200 which is still used fairly regularly here as my main word processing machine. I find that for writing having a machine that's disconnected from the distractions of the modern world helps keep me focused, and I don't think it's ever crashed on me that I can remember! Decent keyboard too...don't think you'll find a modern portable with an Alps based keyboard...

I still have (albeit in a number of different boxes) my first 486 machine, an IBM PS/ValuePoint 433DX/Si, upgraded to 24Mb of RAM, and a 2.1Gb IBM DORS-32160 SCSI hard disk (which I will always remember making the thing sound like the starship Enterprise starting up when you switched it on), via an Adaptec AHA-1542CF SCSI card from memory, and a 2x speed CD-ROM drive that I can't remember the maker/model of. I fully intend to put it back together again once I finally get the various boxes of bits back down to this end of the country. Not sure why it got disemboweled, but at least I know for certain that I still have all the bits...

Don't think I've ever come across another later model PS/ValuePoint machine, which had a more modern looking case to the earlier ones which looked more like the PS/2 machines...Not sure what I'll actually *do* with it once it's back up and running, but you can guarantee that it will do something here to earn its keep.

Last edited by Zelandeth; 23rd Aug 2015 at 11:56 pm.
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