Tonesta Conquest No Audio - Loose Wire - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Exasperant · 4th Dec 2019, 5:21 am

Hi

I'm trying to teach myself how to repair interesting things (and make really uninteresting unfunny videos whilst doing so - That's less of a try, more of a sad reflection). I picked up a "Tonesta Conquet automatic" that was sold as "Turns, but no sound, loose wire".

Having opened it up, I can see a PCB with no valves, and two what I assume to be transistors for the audio.

I can also see two white wires coming from the transformer. One goes to the negative leg of a radial capacitor, the other goes... Into mid air.

I'm guessing the lack of audio is due to lack of power going into the PCB, but I can't tell for certain where the wire should go. There is a diode on the corner of the PCB that seems to have no tracks, wires, etc feeding into it.

PCB is marked "LE-2"

I'm tempted to solder the hanging wire to the otherwise pointless diode, but am worried I could blow something up. Has anyone got a schematic, or maybe photo of this board all wired up?

Thanks!

paulsherwin · 4th Dec 2019, 11:34 am

I don't know this player, but you are right not to poke around randomly with no idea what you're doing. You may cause damage, or even start a fire or electrocute yourself. You will need to teach yourself some electronics basics - voltages, currents, different components, how power supplies and amplifiers work. This isn't something you can do on a whim, and only you can know if you are sufficiently interested to bother.

Sorry

julie_m · 4th Dec 2019, 3:53 pm

Two transistors doesn't sound like enough for a record player, but perhaps there are others hiding?

I think we need to see some pictures of the internals of the record player!

It can almost certainly be got working .....

Edward Huggins · 4th Dec 2019, 8:46 pm

Tonesta was a second brand of Dansette. This may be a Tonesta version of the "Conquest" Mk2 perhaps? If so it will have 2 valves. Maybe the OP will see the vacant B9A valve holders.

Exasperant · 5th Dec 2019, 3:50 pm

I'll try to take photos later, but there's a lack of valves or anywhere to put them.

The previous owner seemed pretty honest when he said he'd opened it up for a look inside, and a wire fell off. Didn't seem the sort to sneak out valves for nefarious purposes.

Reading through this forum I saw similar-ish looking transistor setups, but nothing that could point me to where this wire is meant to be. My first guess is that diode that's sat only one side connected to anything, but because that's a guess I don't want to just solder it up, and then release exploderous magic smoke...

Exasperant · 6th Dec 2019, 11:56 pm

Finally managed to grab some pics.

The loose whire disappears off, alongside the white wire soldered to the (neg, I think) side of the capacitor, to the transformer.

I might be being blind, but I don't see any valves, or places valves should be!

I'm figuring the red, white, and blue wires are feeding transistors, although I base this purely on photos I've found on this forum.

One pic shows the top view of the diode I mentioned, the other corner closeup is the underside - It seems as though only one side of that diode is in the circuit, which is why I'm wondering if that's where the loose wire should go. But this is based on intuition, not knowledge, the thinking being the diode surely must do something, and would be useful for turning AC into DC.

AC/HL · 7th Dec 2019, 1:15 am

Definitely no valves, just four transistors. As far as I can see, your intuition is correct. The loose wire should go to that diode, which is the LT rectifier, and normal service should be restored.

Exasperant · 4th Feb 2020, 5:23 am

Life got in the way of messing with things, but got that wire on and... It works!

Thanks for helping me make sure I didn't blow it or myself up.

One quite query - I've got a bit of hum, like you sometimes get from an electric guitar, or amp when the other end of the lead's not plugged into anything.

It even does the "slightly quieter" when I touch metal parts. It's an earthing issue, I believe?

Is this normal, or do I need to be looking to somehow earth the record deck?

Edward Huggins · 4th Feb 2020, 10:13 am

Looking at that thick, round white cable with a knot in it, this suggests it already has a 3 core mains lead

Herald1360 · 4th Feb 2020, 11:58 am

I'd be inclined to suspect that large grey 500uF capacitor for the hum. It's a very basic* power supply to start with- half wave rectified with only a 500uF reservoir. Replacing it with a 1000uF 25V or higher new one might well help though the player may well have hummed a bit from new.

You may need to consider whether you wish just to get into fixing this player or attempting to improve it a bit!

* As in cheap, nasty and lowest possible cost

Exasperant · 4th Feb 2020, 8:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Huggins

Looking at that thick, round white cable with a knot in it, this suggests it already has a 3 core mains lead

Yeah, I was thankful to see three core flex and the earth attached, but it seems to only go to the control panel area, not the turntable assembly.

Which is mildly perturbing in itself, but would it result in that "Guitar lead not plugged in" hum?

Exasperant · 4th Feb 2020, 8:49 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herald1360

I'd be inclined to suspect that large grey 500uF capacitor for the hum. It's a very basic* power supply to start with- half wave rectified with only a 500uF reservoir. Replacing it with a 1000uF 25V or higher new one might well help though the player may well have hummed a bit from new.

You may need to consider whether you wish just to get into fixing this player or attempting to improve it a bit!

Ah, I'd wondered if "It's always the caps, change them" might apply here - But as this is my first time trying to understand amplifiers didn't want to make any assumptions.

Fixing was my priority, but if there are some noob level tweaks that'll improve it, I'm all for trying them.

Quote:

* As in cheap, nasty and lowest possible cost

But but but... I thought these were collectible because they're such quality items!

(Actually, I was perhaps far too impressed with the all metal, no chips involved, automaticky bits on the turntable)

Edward Huggins · 4th Feb 2020, 10:29 pm

Earthing the deck might create an "earth loop", but you can try it to see if it does make any difference.

Herald1360 · 5th Feb 2020, 10:58 am

The collectability is down to the nostalgia factor not the quality or performance of the player. Why else would anyone pay more for a Dansette than a Bush or Hacker?

Dansette probably hasn't quite achieved the generic ubiquity of Biro or Hoover or Transit but you get the idea.

TBH, putting the Tonesta back to "as original" is just fine, it is what it is. If you want better performance to actually use, get a Hacker or one of the better Bush, Pye or HMV offerings. (Other equally good offerings from other makers are available

)

Exasperant · 15th Mar 2020, 9:17 pm

I invested in software to blur out "underneath nostril view" (who thought having a highly reflective trim right *there* was a good call), and this doesn't have the cap replacement attempt in it... But a massive thank you all round to those who helped me pretend to know what I was doing, and let me get this done in time for (literally by a couple of hours) friend's birthday pressie!

From her feedback I get the feeling this might actually become a bit of a project, trying to tweak it without damaging the charm of its boxy shape and spindly legs.

https://youtu.be/BAk3ORWVa8o

Now to find the courage to open the broken Beocenter 2200 I've picked up...

4th Dec 2019, 5:21 am	#1
Exasperant Diode Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Poole, Dorset, UK. Posts: 9	Tonesta Conquest No Audio - Loose Wire Hi I'm trying to teach myself how to repair interesting things (and make really uninteresting unfunny videos whilst doing so - That's less of a try, more of a sad reflection). I picked up a "Tonesta Conquet automatic" that was sold as "Turns, but no sound, loose wire". Having opened it up, I can see a PCB with no valves, and two what I assume to be transistors for the audio. I can also see two white wires coming from the transformer. One goes to the negative leg of a radial capacitor, the other goes... Into mid air. I'm guessing the lack of audio is due to lack of power going into the PCB, but I can't tell for certain where the wire should go. There is a diode on the corner of the PCB that seems to have no tracks, wires, etc feeding into it. PCB is marked "LE-2" I'm tempted to solder the hanging wire to the otherwise pointless diode, but am worried I could blow something up. Has anyone got a schematic, or maybe photo of this board all wired up? Thanks!

4th Dec 2019, 11:34 am	#2
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,947	Re: Tonesta Conquest No Audio - Loose Wire I don't know this player, but you are right not to poke around randomly with no idea what you're doing. You may cause damage, or even start a fire or electrocute yourself. You will need to teach yourself some electronics basics - voltages, currents, different components, how power supplies and amplifiers work. This isn't something you can do on a whim, and only you can know if you are sufficiently interested to bother. Sorry

4th Dec 2019, 3:53 pm	#3
julie_m Dekatron Join Date: May 2008 Location: Derby, UK. Posts: 7,735	Re: Tonesta Conquest No Audio - Loose Wire Two transistors doesn't sound like enough for a record player, but perhaps there are others hiding? I think we need to see some pictures of the internals of the record player! It can almost certainly be got working ..... __________________ If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.

4th Dec 2019, 8:46 pm	#4
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: Tonesta Conquest No Audio - Loose Wire Tonesta was a second brand of Dansette. This may be a Tonesta version of the "Conquest" Mk2 perhaps? If so it will have 2 valves. Maybe the OP will see the vacant B9A valve holders. __________________ Edward.

5th Dec 2019, 3:50 pm	#5
Exasperant Diode Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Poole, Dorset, UK. Posts: 9	Re: Tonesta Conquest No Audio - Loose Wire I'll try to take photos later, but there's a lack of valves or anywhere to put them. The previous owner seemed pretty honest when he said he'd opened it up for a look inside, and a wire fell off. Didn't seem the sort to sneak out valves for nefarious purposes. Reading through this forum I saw similar-ish looking transistor setups, but nothing that could point me to where this wire is meant to be. My first guess is that diode that's sat only one side connected to anything, but because that's a guess I don't want to just solder it up, and then release exploderous magic smoke...

6th Dec 2019, 11:56 pm	#6
Exasperant Diode Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Poole, Dorset, UK. Posts: 9	Re: Tonesta Conquest No Audio - Loose Wire Finally managed to grab some pics. The loose whire disappears off, alongside the white wire soldered to the (neg, I think) side of the capacitor, to the transformer. I might be being blind, but I don't see any valves, or places valves should be! I'm figuring the red, white, and blue wires are feeding transistors, although I base this purely on photos I've found on this forum. One pic shows the top view of the diode I mentioned, the other corner closeup is the underside - It seems as though only one side of that diode is in the circuit, which is why I'm wondering if that's where the loose wire should go. But this is based on intuition, not knowledge, the thinking being the diode surely must do something, and would be useful for turning AC into DC. Attached Thumbnails

7th Dec 2019, 1:15 am	#7
AC/HL Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 9,642	Re: Tonesta Conquest No Audio - Loose Wire Definitely no valves, just four transistors. As far as I can see, your intuition is correct. The loose wire should go to that diode, which is the LT rectifier, and normal service should be restored.

4th Feb 2020, 5:23 am	#8
Exasperant Diode Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Poole, Dorset, UK. Posts: 9	Re: Tonesta Conquest No Audio - Loose Wire Life got in the way of messing with things, but got that wire on and... It works! Thanks for helping me make sure I didn't blow it or myself up. One quite query - I've got a bit of hum, like you sometimes get from an electric guitar, or amp when the other end of the lead's not plugged into anything. It even does the "slightly quieter" when I touch metal parts. It's an earthing issue, I believe? Is this normal, or do I need to be looking to somehow earth the record deck?

4th Feb 2020, 10:13 am	#9
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: Tonesta Conquest No Audio - Loose Wire Looking at that thick, round white cable with a knot in it, this suggests it already has a 3 core mains lead __________________ Edward.

4th Feb 2020, 11:58 am	#10
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: Tonesta Conquest No Audio - Loose Wire I'd be inclined to suspect that large grey 500uF capacitor for the hum. It's a very basic* power supply to start with- half wave rectified with only a 500uF reservoir. Replacing it with a 1000uF 25V or higher new one might well help though the player may well have hummed a bit from new. You may need to consider whether you wish just to get into fixing this player or attempting to improve it a bit! * As in cheap, nasty and lowest possible cost __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

4th Feb 2020, 10:29 pm	#13
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: Tonesta Conquest No Audio - Loose Wire Earthing the deck might create an "earth loop", but you can try it to see if it does make any difference. __________________ Edward.

5th Feb 2020, 10:58 am	#14
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: Tonesta Conquest No Audio - Loose Wire The collectability is down to the nostalgia factor not the quality or performance of the player. Why else would anyone pay more for a Dansette than a Bush or Hacker? Dansette probably hasn't quite achieved the generic ubiquity of Biro or Hoover or Transit but you get the idea. TBH, putting the Tonesta back to "as original" is just fine, it is what it is. If you want better performance to actually use, get a Hacker or one of the better Bush, Pye or HMV offerings. (Other equally good offerings from other makers are available ) __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

15th Mar 2020, 9:17 pm	#15
Exasperant Diode Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Poole, Dorset, UK. Posts: 9	Re: Tonesta Conquest No Audio - Loose Wire I invested in software to blur out "underneath nostril view" (who thought having a highly reflective trim right there was a good call), and this doesn't have the cap replacement attempt in it... But a massive thank you all round to those who helped me pretend to know what I was doing, and let me get this done in time for (literally by a couple of hours) friend's birthday pressie! From her feedback I get the feeling this might actually become a bit of a project, trying to tweak it without damaging the charm of its boxy shape and spindly legs. https://youtu.be/BAk3ORWVa8o Now to find the courage to open the broken Beocenter 2200 I've picked up...