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Old 13th Mar 2020, 7:36 pm   #1
Eidolon
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Default Philips v2022 help needed please.

Returning to an old machine. I picked this up not too long ago and sent it off. It came back cleaned and kind of working, the technician didn't know how to fix the problems that were left.

It plays now, but usually for just a few seconds before the tape stops and the machine turns itself off. There is an on-screen 'fuzz' on the image like a badly damaged tape just before it turns off, but the tapes don't seem damaged.
In the short time the tape plays i get no audio, although it does give out a white noise hiss when it's playing, so the machine is outputting something.
The image is also a bit flickery, but i expect that's just down to me not having enough of a change to try and tune it in properly before i lose the signal. Any ideas? Unless i can find a replacement power supply for my older (and cosmetically nicer) ITT machine, and someone who will undertake the extent of fixing it, this v2022 is the only chance i currently have of getting to watch my tapes.
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Old 14th Mar 2020, 6:43 pm   #2
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Default Re: Philips v2022 help needed please.

Hi, can't find specific info to your Philips V2022 model, nearest I can get is partial info on the V2000. However it seems to me that there is a problem with the control track pulses or lack of. It could be a wire off due to the cleaning having being done, depends on what was cleaned. Otherwise perhaps a faulty or mis-aligned head assy, perhaps the tape is not fully lacing up when in play mode, or being correctly tensioned where it passes the heads, after that check the output from the head to the control circuitry. Also check for possible tape edge damage being a possible sign for tape misalignment. This sounds like an oscilloscope will be needed to trace the problem along with a service manual to check against or a second machine to compare with. Perhaps other forum members might like to comment further. Dave
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Old 14th Mar 2020, 6:54 pm   #3
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Default Re: Philips v2022 help needed please.

Regarding the sound, the RF out port seemed very wobbly. I was wondering if it had come lose from the audio connection or something?
The wat the tape stops pkaying isn't too disimilar to when an audio cassette stops playing due to issues with a drive belt. It's how the machine turns itself off at the same time that makes it very baffling
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Old 14th Mar 2020, 7:20 pm   #4
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Default Re: Philips v2022 help needed please.

Hi, the turning off of the machine might be due to a safety circuit cutting in to protect the equipment. This will make life difficult to fault find unless it can be safely bypassed. If it can be bypassed, use a sacrificial tape just in case it gets tangled up in the mech. Make sure all of your test kit is connected before trying to test, at least that way you will get a chance to see a reading or scope display. Probably will need several short tests to confirm issue. I would check that the head wires are connected at both ends first. What bit of info I have suggests a fixed head as the control pulse pick up and not the spinning head drum assy. This head has 2 sections to it the first being for erase and the second contains both the audio and control track. It will look a bit like a reel to reel head assy. Once you have confirmed that all the wiring is OK watch the path that the tape follows when lacing up for play mode, as it might become obvious where the trouble is. This combined head is based from what little info I have on the deck. Normally there would be 2 seperate head assy's, the erase being before the rotating drum heads and then the control track audio head after the spinning heads. Dave
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Old 14th Mar 2020, 7:45 pm   #5
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Default Re: Philips v2022 help needed please.

When searching for information it helps to use the correct model designation which in this case is VR2022 (note the R). There are manuals on the web. In particular there is a service manual in Dutch entitled Philips VR2020/02. It has useful diagrams as well as schematics if your command of Dutch is limited like mine. This is the link:

https://freeservicemanuals.info/en/s...SETTERECORDER/

Click on VR2020 alongside 'Type a' to download.

Alan
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 12:30 pm   #6
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Default Re: Philips v2022 help needed please.

I suspect that V2022 is correct but this applies to a video recorder that has a 2 sided VHS tape, same idea as a C60 cassette tape. There were some early Grundig models that also did the same. The VR2022 takes the later standard single sided VHS style tapes. Now, having had a closer look at the V2000 service manual (not VR2000), my description of the control head was wrong, as it does not actually seem to have a seperate deck mount head assy. There are 3 fixed heads on the mech. The one to the left is a full erase head and the one to the right is actually a combined head, the first section is audio erase with other part being for audio playback / record. The control pulses are picked up by the helically scanning rotating head. Before getting too deep into the electronics, I think that the tape path and lacing of the tape is your starting point. Make sure that the 2 rollers that collect the tape from the cassette are going fully home and that the tension lever arm is also moving correctly. You might be lucky in that the problem is simply due to a slack loading belt or sticky grease preventing smooth mechanical operation. If it's not due to a mechanical issue try carefully cleaning the rotating drum heads. Bear in mind that the actual heads are very small and delicate so great care is needed to do this. If you have a good quality cleaner tape, try it first otherwise it will need to be done manually. Don't rub anything on the rotating drum in a vertical direction as this will almost certainly break the tiny pick up heads. The manual cleaning process is to use a lint free wipe with a little head cleaner srayed on to it, then hold the wet part against the rotating drum and manually rotate the drum clockwise and counter clockwise. You may have to repeat with more fluid on the wipe. Keep going until no more black lines are vissible on the lint free wipe. If you are not confident to do this, I suggest you find an experienced service engineer, who has worked on VHS mechanisms in the past. Good luck
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 3:17 pm   #7
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Default Re: Philips v2022 help needed please.

Judging by the OP's other thread about a Grundig 2x4 and the mention of an ITT machine I think we might be looking at Philips V2000 format recorders here. Completely different system from VHS of course. Perhaps Eidolon will be able to clarify.

Alan
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 4:01 pm   #8
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Default Re: Philips v2022 help needed please.

If Eidolon's machine looks like the one in the attached contemporary advert then it's a Philips VR2022. Quite distinctive and uses the Video 2000 (V2000) format.

Alan
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 4:15 pm   #9
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Default Re: Philips v2022 help needed please.

And hopefully here is the proof that the V2022 does exist. http://v2000.palsite.com/v2022ovi.html
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 4:36 pm   #10
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Default Re: Philips v2022 help needed please.

I have a donor VR2020 machine here if the OP needs any parts.

Kev
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 5:13 pm   #11
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Default Re: Philips v2022 help needed please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6ONEDave View Post
And hopefully here is the proof that the V2022 does exist. http://v2000.palsite.com/v2022ovi.html
I think that site has got it wrong. There should be an “R” after the “V” in the model numbers.

Pye branded equivalent machines used the model number format 20VR22, etc.
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 5:16 pm   #12
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Default Re: Philips v2022 help needed please.

As a European machine, the sound problem could merely be that the RF sound is set for 5.5mhz rather than 6mhz for British use.

If you can get around the modulator you could tap the sound off directly and if you have no test equipment a cheap little speaker amp from somewhere like Asda would do just to see if it is working.
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 6:17 pm   #13
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Default Re: Philips v2022 help needed please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6ONEDave View Post
And hopefully here is the proof that the V2022 does exist. http://v2000.palsite.com/v2022ovi.html
Apart from the missing 'R' most of the text is accurate as it describes the V2000 video system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfulcharlie View Post
As a European machine, the sound problem could merely be that the RF sound is set for 5.5mhz ...rather than 6mhz for British use.
The V2000 compatible machines (Philips and Grundig) I used in the 80s/90s worked quite happliy with UK sets.

Alan
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 8:00 pm   #14
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Default Re: Philips v2022 help needed please.

But if that machine was made for use on the Continent, it will have 5.5MHz sound, whereas the UK used 6MHz.

Has the sound ever worked?
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 8:42 pm   #15
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Default Re: Philips v2022 help needed please.

What reason is there to believe that it was made for use on the continent? These machines were widely available in the UK during the 1980s video format wars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6ONEDave View Post
I suspect that V2022 is correct but this applies to a video recorder that has a 2 sided VHS tape, same idea as a C60 cassette tape. There were some early Grundig models that also did the same. The VR2022 takes the later standard single sided VHS style tapes.

.... I suggest you find an experienced service engineer, who has worked on VHS mechanisms in the past.
V2000 format (as opposed to VHS or Betamax) machines like the Philips VR2022 and other V2000 compatible machines (Grundig, ITT, Pye, Siemens etc) used Video Compact Cassettes (VCCs) which could be turned over just like audio cassettes, thus doubling the running time. Everything to do with the V2000 format is quite different from VHS or Betamax.

Inevitably the challenges with maintenance these days are the absence of spares (head drums in particular) and finding someone with sufficient knowledge to undertake repairs. Someone who worked on VHS equipment will not necessarily have that knowledge.

Alan
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 9:36 pm   #16
Eidolon
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Default Re: Philips v2022 help needed please.

It's a standard uk Philips v2022 model of v2000 machine, double sided tapes. Sound apparently worked fine before. It was to replace the ITT machine that the incompetent techie blew up when he wired it up wrong. If circumstances permitted, I'd rather get the ITT working again, as it's in much better cosmetic condition. But I'd need a new power supply for it, and a very patient and competent technician to find all the mistakes and undo them.

Other than this v2022, i have the Grundig 2x4 Super, with a non-functioning tape loading mechanism with no obvious reason as to why it's not working. Nothing appears broken or off-place inside the machine, unless the cog issue i bought up s the case. Anyway, i prefer the ITT/Philips machines for aesthetic reasons, and the Grundig is my last resort, assuming there's a way to find out what's wrong with it.
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Old 15th Mar 2020, 9:58 pm   #17
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Default Re: Philips v2022 help needed please.

Does it have v2022 or VR2022 printed next to the cassette flap on the top of the machine?

Alan
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Old 16th Mar 2020, 1:34 am   #18
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Default Re: Philips v2022 help needed please.

I'm struggling to remember the fun and games I had with VR2020s and 22s many moons ago but seem to recall that the audio boards were somewhat prone to static damage which was often caused by poor handling. However, with this machine there seems to be a tape transport issue and it could be that the lack of initial audio output is simply caused by failure to load the tape correctly. The loading and transport mechanism is controlled by cord and there are no belts as everything is driven directly using servo controlled motors. If the cord slips or is slack alignment goes awry and the tape won't load properly causing the machine to go into standby. I can confirm that replacing the cord is no fun at all and it's not something I would like to do again. Also tape tension/position is monitored by micro-switches and these can cause trouble due to oxidised contacts.

I think I still have a copy of the full version of the service manual in English somewhere but don't know if I could find it. The manual is loose leaf and runs to at least a couple of hundred sheets. It has comprehensive fault finding guides which are a real boon. If anyone is interested in servicing these complex machines it really is worth trying to get hold of a copy. The Dutch copy mentioned earlier is nowhere near as helpful and is considerably abridged.

Sadly one of the most common problems with these old examples of video technology is worn heads and it's now virtually impossible to find unused ones. Also the chances of finding decent heads, with any significant life left in them, on scrap machines are slim.

It might be worth mentioning that Grundig/Siemens V2000 capable VCRs are very different from the Philips versions in terms of construction and layout. The ITT and Pye machines on the other hand were really re-badged Philips models. Note also that there were significant modifications carried during the production runs plus the fact that the VR2020 and VR2022 had quite different PSUs as well control circuitry so individual modules are not always readily interchangeable.

Alan
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Old 16th Mar 2020, 2:50 am   #19
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Default Re: Philips v2022 help needed please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6ONEDave View Post
I suspect that V2022 is correct but this applies to a video recorder that has a 2 sided VHS tape, same idea as a C60 cassette tape. There were some early Grundig models that also did the same. The VR2022 takes the later standard single sided VHS style tapes. Now, having had a closer look at the V2000 service manual (not VR2000),
I'm not sure what machine a V2000 is, I'm curious though.

The only machines I can relate to your description are VR2020 and VR2022. Neither of which have anything to do with VHS. They do use double sided cassettes though. The system was called Video 2000 or VCC. The difference is that the VR2022 can forward and review with a picture.
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Old 13th May 2020, 10:46 am   #20
G6ONEDave
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Default Re: Philips v2022 help needed please.

This has been a long time coming but back in March, I sent an email off to the Philips Museum in Eindhoven to query the V2022 model number. Anyway after a long wait and my email being sent to a curator, I now have the definitive answer. According to Jean Lorteije (Curator) in the Philips product history section the V2022 was not a model number where as the VR2022 was. I appreciate that most people would have taken the model as VR2022, I just wanted to get it confirmed, once and for all.
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